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Removing Item Level Restrictions...
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Do you like the item level restriction ideas presented?
Yes, I think it'll add a lot to gameplay.
64%
 64%  [ 35 ]
No, leave things the way they are.
22%
 22%  [ 12 ]
I don't care, I'll play no matter what you change.
12%
 12%  [ 7 ]
Total Votes : 54

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ShadowCore
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2003 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, I can see it all happening, incredibly powerful mages. Ofcourse, people would have to do A LOT to get there, and they would almost instantly fall back if they ever were to die, say..because the entire land hates them because they abuse their power. Tehehe
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Maelstrom696969
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2003 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drudley wrote:
This sounds so awsome, i wonder if an evil mage would be allowed this power, if not, id sure make a good one and scrap Rellik


Sure, why not? Just play well and you'll be rewarded. Of course, if you were going to use your evil magic to try to take over the world, you'd probably have to face the King's Dragoons and at least one Good wizard who's more or less your equal...
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ShadowCore
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2003 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And you'd get killed because you want to take over the world, at least, that'd what I think. And when you DO get killed, you're screwed and back to lvl 20 or even less. hehe
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Drudley
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2003 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just came to think of something, all this you now mentioned, making spells, golems and having glyphs and all that, is wizard only or can sorcerers get it too???

Also, maelstrom, i doubt even that lvl 40 dragoon could kill the mage that makes his own spells, and specially spells that is like mass imprissonment(?)

But a mage battle of that power would be a fun thing to watch...


EDIT:
Quote:
Of course, if you were going to use your evil magic to try to take over the world


What else would the evil mage do? icon_twisted.gif
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2003 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If there are going to be incredibly powerful items for all the classes, and you were attacked by several Dragoons, which, by the way, each have their own pet dragon, they might be weilding devices that would stop your magic, or make it less potent.

If/when I play an evil mage, I'm not going to want to take over the world. That's too boring.

I want to become a God.
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Last edited by Maelstrom696969 on Fri Mar 07, 2003 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total
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ShadowCore
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2003 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, if the evil mage goes about doing stuff to abuse his power, he's gonna get kicked back. Trust me. I asked Gesh, if the players see he abuses power, they'd get pissed and overthrow him.

Ofcourse, they could also talk him out of it, and do about a dozen other things.
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Geshtal
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2003 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing to remember is that there will be a set of checks and balances...this will be determined by the community of Dysotopia as a whole. If a majority of the players dislike someone enough then they will organize themselves and overthrow the powerful players. A player that becomes powerful but pleases the community will be liked and won't have as many enemies therefore can remain at high levels longer.

As far as researching...wizards are the only class that research in the ways said. Sorcerers have an inate ability to use magic and cannot use such skills...since they are not dependant on intelligence, rather on charisma. Sorcerers will just automatically learn very powerful spells as they increase in level beyond 20...I'm not sure how to do it without a hack pack...probably each spell you learn that is beyond what the game allows will be an item with a special power...don't know exactally.

Keep in mind this stuff is being designed for but not implemented until we reach the point of having someone of epic levels.

Oh, and by the way, the king does not own the dragoons...and yes, a level 40 dragoon could waste a level 30 mage...we're talking 10 levels of difference...the dragoon is immune to spells up to level 7 I believe as well as the fact they command a dragon that's 1d4 per level of the dragoon in level...so a level 40 dragoon has a dragon that is between level 40 and 160 (120 is max) and dragons are pretty resistant to magic at that level let alone the fact that their intelligence is like 80. They can FAR out wit a measly level 30 mage. icon_wink.gif
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Little Teapot
PostSat 03/08/03 5:34am
Don't forget clerics in your godly scheme...
and HakPacks aren't too big a deal except for new players, it'd cut down on those :/
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2003 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i can see how fighters will be seriously lacking in the long run already... everyones going to play a mage for imprisonment with no save and no resist..
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2003 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

o wait, thats right, some spell ritual also makes you immune to all things like entangle and imprisonment and stuff in PnP... i forgot about that, might be the only way to survive it ....
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2003 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe Gesh should mention a little of the epic things for more classess not only the mages


EDIY: By the way Jon, some people might want to be a dragoon instead of a mage, a lvl 20 dragoon still gets a lvl 20-80 dragon icon_twisted.gif


Last edited by Drudley on Sat Mar 08, 2003 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total
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Kindo
PostSat 03/08/03 11:28am
Imprisonment, you can use 'Freedom' to release an improsoned soul. Atleast in ad&d.  Reply with quote
 
ShadowCore
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2003 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alrightie then, I love this stuff.
I have an idea, why doesn't everyone try to do a list of things a class should get when going beyond level 20? It would make life a bit easier for Gesh, I think.

I'll do the Monks, as a matter of fact, I'm doing it right now icon_biggrin.gif
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Kindo
PostSat 03/08/03 1:23pm
Hmm, reminds me of those "High-level" abilities you gained in BG2. Some nice stuff there.  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2003 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You mean things like paladins getting groups of NPC followers that they can equip with whatever they want to? Or thieves being able to create and set traps of awesome power and undetectability...and being able to move so well in the shadows that they are practically undetectable at all times? Or perhaps soemthing about clerics being able to gain so much faith that the avatar of their deity will actually APPEAR to them and aid them personally? Or maybe something about bards being able to woo even PCs that come in their way with a special ability that allows the PL bard to force a check on certain skills upon another player...giving them incredible advantages in most situations? Maybe I should mention that fighters will simply be able to weild weapons and armors of incredible magnitude...making them sought after and the most highly paid combat class available to play? There are a TON of things we can do with time and resources...

The main focus is for those levle 1 players at this time...we have to buld everything up and it'll be done by levels. NOTHING will be done for level 2 characters until level 1 characters are designed for. So those of you who like to powergame will have to role play some non combat stuff while things are layerd on top of what's in the works.
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ShadowCore
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2003 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just wanted to send you some stuff about high-level characters, in case you want to do something about it. General stuff about them, and what happens in DnD after characters reach lvl 20+. Let me know if you want it.
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Glorin
PostSat 03/08/03 10:19pm
i till like maelstroms idea  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2003 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCore wrote:
Uin, the problem is, that lvl 1 characters should not be using a greatsword +5 or something. People don't have to think about it when they use it, but it should be harder to use. So maybe you can look at it like this: If the character isn't adept at using a fiery blade(ie. too low a level/inexperienced), he might hurt himself in the flames. Same goes for magical other stuff, the character can't control the powers of the sword properly, so he swings completely wrong and chops his leg off. Something like that.


Well no. A sword is a sword. You can't swing wrong and chop off your leg, just because its +5. The fighters isn't going to grab the it sharp end first. Many a great adventure would start with a young adventurer receiving a power weapon. And he goes on from there.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2003 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, but it's the magic that makes the difference. Do you have any idea how incredibly powerful a +5 weapon is? It's just insane, it's an incredibly rare and powerful weapon. Now think about a lvl 1 character, not even acquainted to a +1 weapon, holding that weapon. He swings it...but his swing is so powerful, that he can't control it, he swings so hard that he hits himself or hurts himself in some other way. That's how it should work, I think.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2003 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm against Uber powerful weapons. i don't care what kind of checks and balances there are. it becomes too easy to have a invul with even level 20 items. level 40 is just in54n3 so, no. i'm totally against it.
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   oh ja, ik weet het zonet nog niet
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   het ziet er toch wel een beetje naar uit dat we nederlands praten
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Glorin
PostSat 03/08/03 11:14pm
says the m4570R of 1nvu||\| 4Rm0r5!  Reply with quote
 
Little Teapot
PostSat 03/08/03 11:15pm
That's right... don't forget it  Reply with quote
 
Kindo
PostSun 03/09/03 12:19am
I won't....damn, I forgot it! icon_sad.gif  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2003 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCore wrote:
Yes, but it's the magic that makes the difference. Do you have any idea how incredibly powerful a +5 weapon is? It's just insane, it's an incredibly rare and powerful weapon. Now think about a lvl 1 character, not even acquainted to a +1 weapon, holding that weapon. He swings it...but his swing is so powerful, that he can't control it, he swings so hard that he hits himself or hurts himself in some other way. That's how it should work, I think.


But a fighter would not do that. If someone is trained in Martial weapons then they know the basics of all the weapons. They can't hurt themselves, they are already trained in their use:

Greatsword 1 is made from an old heavy steal. Its what the fighter has been using for yearshe hack and slashes like a pro with it.

Greatsword 2 is made from a new lighter steal. The fighter is unused to the new weight but has fuly greatsword training and using the weapon becomes second nature within a few minutes.
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Kindo
PostSun 03/09/03 12:43am
So far, I'm with Uin on this one.  Reply with quote
 
Drudley
PostSun 03/09/03 2:01am
TP, do you really think Gesh will make stuff that makes the people immune to everything? Give him some credit, will ya?  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2003 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCore wrote:
I just wanted to send you some stuff about high-level characters, in case you want to do something about it. General stuff about them, and what happens in DnD after characters reach lvl 20+. Let me know if you want it.


Yes.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2003 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as your guys' conversation goes about the weapons hurting the user...that's not likely to happen unless the weapon has some form os spell quality attached. The thing I can see happening is that if you're using a weapon that you simply shouldn't be, you will have a low percentage of hitting with it and may lost control of it during a battle and watch as it goes flying off.

You people are interprating the weapon as being equal in all respects...as if a greatsword is the same as a flaming greatsword +5...which is somewhat true but magical enchantments DO require experience and knowledge of their weilder to operate correctly. Think of it as the difference between someone firing a bolt action rifle, and then going to fire a thirty o8. Sure, the concept uis the same...you aim and pull the trigger...except that the 30o8 would knock someone down because it kicks a LOT more. It's similar with weapons...a sword may be weilded in a certain way and you may pick up some +5 weapon and it's also weilded int he same way, but the way the weapon REACTS to you weilding can be a lot different...imagine a sword that cuts through things like a knife through butter...you wind up to whack this guy when only a small amount of effort is required and you slice through him but now you're faced wityh a weapon that has a lot of momentum and you didn't account for that! You're thrown off balance and find yourself on the ground and the sword 6 feet away.

NO MATTER WHAT we cannot allow people to use weapons that are much higher than them...it would cause a LOT of balancing problems. So even if you can PROVE to me that you could weild a +5 greatsword of the heavens as level 2 I wouldn't care because it would make the game SO easy for you that no one would like you anymore. Instead of a bunch of levle 20 uberness, everyone could be uber at levle 1. BAH!

So all in all, things aren't gonna change much...I will probably remove the level restrictions but the innate restrictions will be pretty close to what their default values are.
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ShadowCore
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2003 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:


You people are interprating the weapon as being equal in all respects...as if a greatsword is the same as a flaming greatsword +5...which is somewhat true but magical enchantments DO require experience and knowledge of their weilder to operate correctly. Think of it as the difference between someone firing a bolt action rifle, and then going to fire a thirty o8. Sure, the concept uis the same...you aim and pull the trigger...except that the 30o8 would knock someone down because it kicks a LOT more. It's similar with weapons...a sword may be weilded in a certain way and you may pick up some +5 weapon and it's also weilded int he same way, but the way the weapon REACTS to you weilding can be a lot different...imagine a sword that cuts through things like a knife through butter...you wind up to whack this guy when only a small amount of effort is required and you slice through him but now you're faced wityh a weapon that has a lot of momentum and you didn't account for that! You're thrown off balance and find yourself on the ground and the sword 6 feet away.

In case you didn't notice, that's exactly what I said.

And that stuff is coming up, I can do the other classes as well.
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Glorin
PostSun 03/09/03 5:48pm
shadow core you are such a spammer  Reply with quote
 
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