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Refund prices
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Draken
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:19 pm    Post subject: Refund prices Reply with quote

im just making a suggestion on the refunds i did always think that the old dyso was alittle happy on refunds and treasure and im glad that you cut back on the money gig but i think when you buy studded leather +1 for 300 and something when you go back to sell it. It shoulb be worth more than 6 gp or you buy something worth 3000 gp and its refund is 1 gp if thats the case your going to get alot of theves killing and robing ppl for their stuff b/c with the wait for it takes someone to respawn the person is going to be naked by the time they get around and come back
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nah, I like it this was and and it was done this way for a reason ... to encourage people to set up more of a character based economy. Or, maybe more to the point, to get people used to that idea of maybe asking those in your party if they need something you just found rather than run to the local shop and sell. You can sell to a shop for SOMETHING but you will get prices more to your liking by dealing with other characters in game. Eventually, with Rebirth, this will be pretty much the only option you have.
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Briss
PostMon 03/17/03 11:01pm
The way things are setup make it so that trading between people is only way to get top coin for items.  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can I melt these things down and make new things from them? I've got enough copper rings and necklaces to make a copper dragon for crying out loud icon_smile.gif
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 11:09 pm    Post subject: Worried Reply with quote

I really like the idea of buying and selling from other characters, but I am concerned that we are going to get a lot of shouting...

I saw on another world where you could hire a NPC to sell things for you. The reason for the guy there was for selling tradeskill made items but it could work for this too.

Or perhaps bulletin board at the taverns and inns might be another suggestion.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah i like the idea of trading umongest us and i hope also that it dosnt cuase all the shouts also but i do think this was good idea it gets more charctors involed and getting the newier ppl to get a chance also to enteract with other players good idea
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Malakalam
PostTue 03/18/03 12:30am
I've got wood for sale at 30gp if you're too lazy to chop it yourself or something.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to see Southern Coast be a place for trading....using tells in this area should work fine....If I need something I can go there and ask around for it....
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Malakalam
PostTue 03/18/03 12:33am
Isn't it pvp? I'm not about to try and sell things in a pvp area with no guards around to catch the thieves.  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Malakalam wrote:
I've got wood-- Malakalam


Hehe Malakalam got wood, that's soooo dirty icon_lol.gif
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Malakalam
PostTue 03/18/03 4:31am
what can I say, I like 3.x that much.  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the originator of this post (<- Screwy english) Is right about getting pickpocketed naked when your death for 5 minutes.... I think something should be done bout pickpocketing of death people... icon_exclaim.gif
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why? It's completely logical, why would a thief hesitate to steal from a dead man? I don't get that. They'd do it just for money(unless they're really good). Nothing needs to be done about the stealing from dead people, you just need to make sure you don't get killed, because getting killed is a terrible thing for any character. Think about it.

And the refund system is good, the point of low refunds is that they want an inter-player economy to rise up. It's going to be a bit tough but I already started something within my own order.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both the death and economy system are exactly as they were meant to be. Gesh and Bri wanted everyone to fear death above all, and the economy to be between PC's instead of NPC's. Some don't like this, some like it. But keep in mind that both of them were exactly as they wanted them to be. icon_smile.gif
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what's the point of stealing at all anymore? you can't sell anything you steal, and chances are pretty good you're not going to get something you want.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really like what they did with bot hthe death system and the economy. Two thumbs up for the administrators!

I don't see why people complain *GASP* There might acctually be a penalty for dieing!

Or worse, you may just have to work for your money, not like getting filthy rich off the easiest enemies in the game.

Its also really a good thing, because it will weed out the annoying powergamers that shouldn't have been here in the first place.
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M-K
PostTue 03/18/03 5:12pm
The money works fine .  Reply with quote
 
Uin
PostTue 03/18/03 5:32pm
Agreed.  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The death thing is totally fine. As a matter of fact, I think it's still too light for people who are level 10 on up. I welcome the day when a level 15+ person can actually lose a level!

But I think the sell-back thing was cut down a bit too much. I'm not saying I totally dislike it, because I agree that it will foster between-player transactions more, and that is definitely good. But if the reason why something only fetches 5gp is because it's easy to acquire, how can a blacksmith stay in buisiness selling the same thing for 500gp? We're trying to build a sensible economy here, but that makes no sense.

Let me reiterate that I think it's O.K. the way it is, but it would be a little more realistic if the sell-back price was maybe 5-10% of sale price.

I forgot to mention - when we get tradeskills, then I could care less what the merchants pay. But we don't have 'em yet....
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Last edited by Maelstrom696969 on Tue Mar 18, 2003 7:16 pm, edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bri likes the Southern Coast - I'd recommend the Eleriina Marketplace. A few stalls there already - a common area for most and a non-PVP area to boot.

I could see a player trading area there...
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I admit the sound of a player-based economy sounds good, I'm not entirely sure if it will work out in the long-run. But everything should be given a chance. I would love to see the following debates happenning:

Two players arguing over what price to buy and sell at. The player selling eventually resorts to getting his emote wand to persuade the other player that he's buying for a good price, though base DC would have to be discussed, I would recommend the DC be 10 + character's level (buyer's level). So max DC would be 30, which is easily doable for Bards, at least then they could use their skills. If they fail the check, then they sell for what the buyer wanted (as long as it's a fair price), and if they succeed they get to sell for what they asked (must be an affordable price). Or if they just succeed (withing 5 of the DC for example), Then they split the difference and agree at a halfway price. Like the henchmen in NWN. They offered you a price like 200gp, then you could persuade them to lower it to 100gp. If your check succeeded by a lot, then they would agree, if it failed they would say "no sorry, 200gp or I don't work for you" and if it just succeeded they would say "shall we split the difference and make it 150"?

Another thing I just thought up - what about bards using their perform to lie about the item they're selling? For example they could claim to be selling a +3 sword when really it's a +1. If they succeed on their perform check, (which would be significantly higher) then they ... no come to think of it this may be considered scamming. Forget that. icon_razz.gif

Or perhaps auctions, as I heard Bri suggest. Yeah, there should be an auctioner's corner, where *misplaced* items and such could be sold to the highest bidder! I like it. icon_biggrin.gif

So many possibilities with this, people just have to use their imagination. However, my main concern is that players may not go along with the whole persuading thing, which would ruin it. Still, I give this idea the cool.gif for now anyway.

Griff
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PostTue 03/18/03 9:07pm
Good points Griff.

But what I _really_ want to say is, God-D*** that is a good sig.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the southern coast as the trade area, all the ships come in there, first hand buying and selling before it hits the real shops. Griff's points about persuade and such are cool. I even used persuade to turn Rumanos' "army" against him.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

when trading among pc's no pc wanst to buy lets say a chopper necklase or a robe or some sort of medium armor so hwo does that work? icon_question.gif
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good point Shady.

Will we have items that actually have a market value? If you go back and look at your ECON books (some of you), you find that in theory, an item you have to sell must have a demand. Most likely, if there is a demand for it, you won't want to sell it (you'll use it yourself).

What items have a demand that can't be satisfied by an NPC vendor?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 3:01 am    Post subject: Player Based Economy is a pipe dream Reply with quote

I think I agree with many of the previous posts in that a player based economy would be highly condusive to RP. However I just don't see the viability without a coupple of big changes. First of all, there needs to be a more effective way of advertising your items other than standing in the market place and calling out what you have for sale. Given the taboo against shouting, it is just not feasible to stand in one place trying to sell your last suit of armor to a minority of the players who may be looking for such an item. It could easily take up to an hour to sell full plate +1 or something of like value to a fellow player. This is especially true when you consider that players are very limited in the amount of stuff they can carry around with them at any given time while still being able to actually use the character for anything other than standing in one place trading. So basically, you at least need somewhere for people to store their inventory and you need to allow people to broadcast their items on the shout channel. Otherwise there is really not enough incentive to try and sell items. I do like the Idea of NPC helpers that could do the selling for you, but then that tends to defeat the purpose of the player economy to promote RP. Also, aren't there several bugs which people can exploit to take advantage of user-user transactions?

Basically, you can't force people to RP through stringent xp and gold. Alll that does is make it harder for people just starting out and shift the advantage to the more powerful players who have been around for a long time. If you want RP, you need to create plot based scenarios that encourage it, maybe even allowing evil characters to form evil plots under the guidance of a DM NPC. RPing is a creative activity, and from my experience rules and stringency will only tend to stifle it. If you don't want power gamers then you need to create an environment in which not only power gamers will excell, because they will only see the current environment as a challenge and when they finally do achieve a high level through constant power killing, none of the other players will be able to challenge them.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Omg... this game is gonna turn out just like uo... you'll have players who banksit...
No bank, okay perhaps that won't work... and you'll just have players that keep shouting that their selling 1337 equipment for ch33p prices etc.... hmpf suit yourself at least dont offer 1 gp at a merchant cause it sucks icon_evil.gif

Edit: at least make sure I can reach 100 gp by hunting and not 10gp icon_sad.gif
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2003 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love it, already the marketplace is becoming a real marketplace people selling and buying. Almost all objections wich have been put forward are very lame from my point of view. So what if it is hard to do bussines, so what if it takes you an hour to sell your armor. Who says being a merchant has to be easy? Because of this it is actually profitable to be a merchant. Cause the adventurers don't have the time to sell their items to other adventurers, a merchant acting as an intermediates is actually giving a service to others so they pay him for this. I know I do!
The only problem is, like stated somewhere earlier is that a player cannot keep an entire inventory on him. Simple solution would ofcourse be to let players be able to hire a stand or a house, and indeed the coast is a perfect place for this.

Guys I'd just like to say, I freakin' love it, keep up this brilliant work!
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2003 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was me. This whole trading thing isn't going to work, since it requires people to carry around every item they might want to trade. Who's going to buy 15 bags of holding to carry all that junk? Should we start making mule characters? Are we trying to turn Dyso into Diablo 2? What's next, hawking our equipment on ebay?
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Glorin
PostSun 03/23/03 5:15pm
have some confidence mogster, ur negaitve attitude brings us all down, especially kindo!

i mean look at him!
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