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About thieves

 
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Thrawien
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 7:11 am    Post subject: About thieves Reply with quote

First of all...
HI ALL icon_mrgreen.gif some of you might already know me in game (the name's the same as here icon_wink.gif )
this is my first post and I never thought it would be a post of this kind but I saw some things that left me with a bit of disappointment..

The fact is: I've been robbed sometimes in the last times (you'll be saying "good.. another one whining...", but it's not a complain.. it's just an idea icon_mrgreen.gif )
However, I saw the the technique practiced by thieves is always the same:
- spot the prey
- use the ring of invisibility
- steal at pleasure
now, I have a question: why does attacking an enemy break the invisibility, and stealing from someone doesn't? but I also know that changing how the spell works can be a little difficult for scripters...
Also, being a rogue myself (but I'm no thief.. I'm a treasure hunter icon_mrgreen.gif ) I can detect them stealing my things many times ("lost item: ...."), and here comes the worst part: if I RP and say "hey you! give my things back" some of the robbers will just pretend not of having heard me and keep on robbing undisturbed, so I'm forced to run away and find some spot to hide while I check what's missing. And also I can't attack the robber to take my things back because 1. they're invisible and 2. as far as I see them and check their status I always find "overpowering" enemies, so it's not worth the risk attacking them.
Why did I wrote all of this? because I have 2 proposal that might resolve the thing:
1) disable stealing while invisible.. a thief should rely on his stealth abilities: invisible or not if I can detect a hand rummaging in my bags I want to be able to catch it.
or 2) whenever I catch someone stealing me (I mean, detect the attempt) a ticket of some sort will appear in my backpack as evidence of the theft, so when I see the thief again in a city, I give the ticket to a Unity and she takes care of *jailing (I mean a RP jail), killing, get my thing back (or money as refund) from him, ..... -insert your idea here- .....*

I know that it might still look like a whine, but at the actual state of things, there's no way to protect yourself from thieves, even if caught.

Sorry for the long post icon_mrgreen.gif but when I have to say something I take the long way icon_wink.gif

p.s. what do you think of my signature? :8
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Kindo
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once again it's about roleplay. There are people who roleplay a thief nicely, and there are those who does it really sucky. The problem is that most of the people playing thieves are fully set on grabbing valuable items. They haven't thought of the RP aspect of it, they just want stuff. Many people multiclass, and take only one level of rogue simply to be able to steal. Bad roleplay. You can probably tell if someone is crappy at roleplaying the thief. You said you caught him, and then yelled "Hey!" and such. If he continues to steal, he's a lameass rogue and can be dealt with accordingly.

C.R.O.E. wrote:

10. Pick Pocketing is part of the game as is disarming. It happens, deal with it. We don't wanna hear you crying about it, don't wanna hear the bitching about it. If you didn't actually SPOT it, then you really can't go postal when you see "Lost item" messages. Yes we know the PPing skill is not very true to life and sometimes results in PPing something of insane size/value ... but a rogue is a rogue and it's part of their character. If Player A actually takes the steps to RP the theft a bit, then Rogue B is more inclined to return something or maybe let them buy it back for some small fee. Maybe act suspicious, maybe ask someone nearby if they may have seen something odd or if you dropped something they might have picked up ... but the wholesale approach of "someone stole from MEEEE now all in the area DIEEEE until I get it back" is not going to be tolerated. Everything that exists within NWN can be abused in some way if someone wants to. Those who use these feats/skills in a purely abusive manner without any RP of their own will find they are no more tolerated than the goons who just blindly kill any possible rogue in sight.


That's an excerpt from the guideline of rules we have. That section speaks mostly about the victim, but that last part applies to the thief aswell. If a thief continues to steal from you even after you've caught him, he's abusing his skills and roleplays very lousy. It's not allowed.

Sorry if I don't have much input on your suggestions.

PS: If you're new to the forums, you should read up on the C.R.O.E. I believe I still have the link in my signature.
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Thrawien
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sure sure.. I understand perfectly what you mean.. the only thing I am asking is: is there (or will there be) some way to report the "accident" to the guards if witnessed? I think it would add some RP to the thieves' life too icon_mrgreen.gif
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"The migthy wizard lifted his hands towards the sky, chanting arcane rituals... a dense bluish mist was dancing around him, and bolts of light erupted from his fingers... all of a sudden a blinding flash, a thunder... and then silence.
The great wizard sat down and began to eat the chicken that he had just, laboriously, cooked..."
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Kindo
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed, it would be nice. But you have to check with Bri on that one. He's the developer and I don't know what he's up to at the moment. There are player controlled guards too, you know. The White Guard and the Kravenwood Militia. I think you can report a theft to anyone of those if the crime was commited on their respective grounds. (WG - Eleriina area and KWM - Kraven area). Also, the OSB is some kind of law-keepers. They fight for what's just and righteous. Don't know what they will do really, but they're atleast on your side.
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Jilessa
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OOC---
Heh.well i do agree with somethings said here.

But pick pocketing is although a part of the game indeed.and if you can't protect yourself against it, though luck! thats just the way it is

But one thing i really think you could edit...Skills being stolen?

Thats just lame!
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skills can be stolen? Now that's just plain funny!!!

How would you RP that?

"Hey! You stole my... er... uh... ability to cook better!"

Seriously though, I thought that if the thief fails the spot check, then the game system alerts both the thief and the victim. No telling how many times I've been PP'ed and didn't even know it!

Anyway... PP'ing is a good way for thieves to acquire items as they are not quite so adept at killing masses of creatures. Too bad thieves can't get XP for successful PPs.

Also, it kinda sucks when they go invis (though that is their perogative and probably wise at that)... you know what they're up to, but you just can't do anything about it... except... if you see them before they go invis and they are a notorious thief, you could immedeately become suspicious and perhaps even threaten to kill them if they come anywhere near you... as if some of us would know without true seeing, lol! I'm not suggesting that every theif should be threatened at any given time... and it seems best under C.R.O.E. to let them have their way as otherwise every theif would be constantly in danger whenever they come near another character. But, perhaps the way to counter the invisibility trick is to threaten them once they turn invisible for no apparent reason.


Last edited by not_so_unique on Tue May 06, 2003 2:09 pm, edited 2 times in total
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Y
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

if you can't protect yourself against it, though luck! thats just the way it is


trust me there are way to prevent PP....look at the lame inventory of some..
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those tokens should be undroppable, i thought they already were.
As for Rogue players, being one of the oldest dyso thieves myself it is really all about how you roleplay it and how decent you are as player.
It's just pathetic if a rogue keeps "bumping" into someone who tries to roleplay suspecting the thief and he just keeps doing it. Also we have a rule about not robbing more than one durable item (sword.armors,staffs, etc).
Nondurables (scrolls, potions, money etc) no issue as long as you keep the roleplaying in mind. If someone is effortless to you simply dont rob.
It's one player showing the other player some decency.
On the other hand the victim really needs that message saying: x was detected stealing from you. That's when you catch his hand in the cookiejar and can pound him to death or walk into town and asking for help.
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Grok
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the Forum Thrawien, sorry it had to start with frustration...please let me offer some advice on how to protect yourself better. First I should note that I have naver played a rouge on Dyso, not used the PP skill from the levels in rouge I have taken (I like the ability to use magical devices--mainly scrolls, and the extra dammage from a sneak attack) so if I mistate something please someone more familuar with the rouge skill let me know.

The first thing you can do is to protect your inventory, by putting better items in bags or boxes...then get something like small fruit or sling bullets and suround the most important items...this reduces the chance of a nice item being taken.

The most successful techinique is respect....I have many rouge friends, and do my best to stop and say hi to anyone I meet, also if you see someone hurt stop to help, or leave a fire...it's amazing how well being nice and respectfull will reduce things disapearing from your pack. And you might make some new friends too icon_smile.gif .

There is an item called the scales of truth, this armor can be used to cast detect invisibility 2/day it's available in Kravenwood for a bit less than 30 k. Just put it in quick slot. It doesn't have a very long duration, but is is quite helpfull.

When possible be in a party, and have a mage or cleric cast true sight on you...it lasts for quite some time. Invest in spot as a skill...espically if you wear heavy armor....nothing will detract a rouge like you turning around to look at tham and saying hello...plus if they do take something your more likely to notice it.

Be aware of you surendings, often certain areas are more likely to have rouges actively working. The valley near Eleriina and the rouge's cave is a popular spot early, then the Path to KravenWoods...where they can slip into butterfly fields or into Kravenwoods estate.

And last, try not to go "your stole form me now you shall die" but instead try to RP the event with some flair or at least tact..."excuse me, I seem to have a hole in my backpack, did you happen to find anyting on the ground, I would be happy to offer a small reward"....and most of all just because you see a halfling around please don't asume that is the thief....or asume all halflings are rouges..thats a bad rp practice...and a quick way to get yourself more people against you.

I hope this helps, and if you do have a problem, or more questions, look for Grok, as a Knight of the OSB I will be happy to help with any disbutes or problems. Or to just have an ale and talk.
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dreamin'
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well spoken grok, but I have an addition:
not just don't assume every halfling is a thief, but don't call those that are rouge either, they're rogues! icon_wink.gif
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Thrawien
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well Grok, you know me in-game.. and you know that I am not the kind of player that doesn't respect others... I am always ready to help other players, whenever I return to the city I offer something of what I got in my journeys to others, both newbies and more seasoned people for free.. I have quite some friends, I always greet everyone I see, and I never assumed that halfling=thief... my spot skill is quite high (I only take points in pickpocket myself because I don't know where to put remaining ability points when I level).
I played Ultima Online for almost 4 years now, and I am also GM in a NU shard.. so I have spent many many hours with players saying "hey he robbed me that's not fair!" and I know how it can be frustrating for staff members to have to do with such people...
however, in short I don't need to be PREVENTED from being pickpocketed.. I only wish that, if I catch the thief, I could be able to make him pay his debt to justice without having to engage combat or simply say "goodbye" to my hard earned items..
That's all
thank you all for the attention however icon_mrgreen.gif
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"The migthy wizard lifted his hands towards the sky, chanting arcane rituals... a dense bluish mist was dancing around him, and bolts of light erupted from his fingers... all of a sudden a blinding flash, a thunder... and then silence.
The great wizard sat down and began to eat the chicken that he had just, laboriously, cooked..."
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

actually now if you have sumthin stolen from you and kill tha person that stole it...tha stolen items will drop on tha ground...if you ever been to El north and Pk'd a player...you'll notcie a messaqge that reads :: this character does not have anything of yours :: after you Pk um......
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me be the first to offer my service to you good folk. Don't worry bout items getting stolen and don't worry about cluttered inventory. I would be more than happy to hold onto all your gold and any important items. Yep! It will be safe with ol' Pete the Pick.
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Thrawien
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2003 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure Pete... if you would agree to a contract where you take charge of being always present when I need one of my deposited items and, in case of loss of an item you were given, you are ready to pay me back 100 times the lost item's value I would be happy of giving you all of my unnecessary items and pay you... 100gp a day? icon_mrgreen.gif
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"The migthy wizard lifted his hands towards the sky, chanting arcane rituals... a dense bluish mist was dancing around him, and bolts of light erupted from his fingers... all of a sudden a blinding flash, a thunder... and then silence.
The great wizard sat down and began to eat the chicken that he had just, laboriously, cooked..."
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Coral_Reef
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2003 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the forms Thrawien!

It was a pleasure adventuring with you yesterday.

Has anyone else found sucess with using the anti pickpocket devices that you can get west of the Eleriina valley?

Load up with a couple hundred of these babies and test em out.
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River
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2003 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know that just one of these devices isn't enough. Before the wipe, I was joking with a friend of mine. His character had one in his pack yet my character managed to lift his mithril slippers. Perhaps it was because the slippers were on his feet and not in his pack. icon_lol.gif

It seems like the best options is to have a friend who can cast true seeing upon you or be too charming to be a target to most thieves. *bats eyelashes*

Still, I think this is always going to be a problem.
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