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Pickpocket roleplaying-the victim
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Kindo
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2002 12:38 pm    Post subject: Pickpocket roleplaying-the victim Reply with quote

Hello!

I know this has been brought up before, but I was thinking of renewing it aswell as adding a bit more details.

When someone pickpockets you and succeed, you automatically notice what item you have lost the moment it happens.
As we know, this is not good.
The character should not know about this until sometime later when he checks through his stuff (when resting or whatever).
Many people never care about that fact. And they immedietally starts banging on nearest halfling.
It is bad RP. But as it is in NWN that you notice at once, they don't care.

It would be nice if you could Roleplay better through this.
When someone is attempting to Pickpocket you, you get one of three messages. All depending on victims spot vs thiefs pickpocket check.
One is that "X is attempting to steal from you"
Two "X stole Y from you"
Or three "Lost Y"
*X = Character name Y = Item name

Number one: occurs when the thiefs PP check fails and you succeed your spot check. Therefore you notice who and what he tries to do.
All good to make counter-meatures on this one.
If it is smashing him at once or talking to him is up to how your character is.

Number two: The thief succeeds his PP check. And at the same time,
the victim suceeds his spot check. That way you notice who the thief is and what he steals from you.
Again, counter-meatures are allowed depending on your character.

Number three: The thief has succeeded his PP check, you have failed your spot check. The theft is completed without any problems.
At this point, you will recieve the message that notifies you on a certain item-loss.
If good RP, you should not start looking for a thief at once.
Because your character does not know he lost the item yet.
This is when you later, maybe when you rest or searching through your backpack for some reason, may notice you have lost an item.
But that does not mean you know exactly who did it.
Maybe your character simply lost it in the ruckus when fighting monsters?
But if you saw a suspicious character sneaking about earlier, you can always SUSPECT him of being a thief. And maybe when you see him again, begin asking questions.
If he acts suspiciously, you can take actions proper to your character.

So far, I only have seen one playing this way. Acting RP when seeing the Number three message appear and not knowing at once. That is me.
Maybe someone else do this, but I have not met one yet.
This is a personal sacrifice as a player you make.
And all to make better Roleplay.

((Another personal sacrifice you can make, which I came up with right now icon_smile.gif. Is to when you question a suspected thief, you can ask OOC how high the suspects Persuade is. This should be very complicated to varify if he persuades you to believe him or not. This was just a thought.))

As far as I know, none of this that I have said is yet classed as bad RP if you break.
So far, I guess you are allowed to notice an item-loss if Number three happens, and kill nearest halfling.
I myself, would want it to become rules to follow though.
Or maybe Bioware could stop that message from appearing, in a patch or something.


Alright, just thought I should share my thoughts and maybe get one or two sympathisers.
Might be very hard to get people to make sacrifices for the sake of RP in this particular matter though.

Yours truly, Kindo.

PS: I remembered a fourth message that could appear (I think).
"SOMEONE is attempting to steal from you".
This is simlpy when thief fails his PP check, and you fail your spot check and therefore not able to determine who it was trying to steal from you.
Once again, not good to start banging away. yada-yada-yada.


Last edited by Kindo on Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2002 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting suggestions...definitely worth thinking about.

I would add thought that it it should depend on the item. If someone steals a 50 pound suit of armor from you or even a Greatsword +3, it's not like you aren't going to notice immediately. Maybe with smaller items a more subtle warning as you say.

As far as the "Banging on the nearest halfling thing", if I detect that someone is trying to steal from me (or in the other example given - I notice a whole suit of armor is missing) it's usually going to be obvious who did it...even in RP. If there are only 35 people in the whole world, and only two of them within 30 feet of you, there's a pretty good chance the one who just bumped into you (halfling or no) is the one who's robbing you.

Still good ideas on customizing the messages. Dunno if it's possible or not.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2002 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great ideas there ... unfortunately the masses are never going to adopt it. You might get a few people who play along ... but most will do exactly as you said ... looking for the closest halfling to bash. Too bad, but that's just the way it seems to be and damned if there is any real way to counter such a deep-rooted style (or lack thereof) of play.

Then, due to this, it ends being that the people who RP it right are the ones getting PPed ... which just encourages the hack-n-slashers to be louder because the thief will think twice.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2002 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it would be amazing if bioware reprogrammed the message of something missing to be delayed until the first time you check your inventory after the theft. That way you see a thief looking suspicious you check your inventory, THEN notice while he was tying his shoelaces he was really grabbing that 100 kilo weighing armor.
Oh yea, maybe bioware should reprogram that as well. Small items are dead simple to steal for a trained thief, taking a greatsword out of someone's back pack is not.
Oh wait, Bioware should reprogram that as well, i mean when a fighter tucks his greatsword +3 flamewielding away...where does he keep it?
And like do we really dare ask that grumpy halforc with the painfull expression on his face and clamped buttocks...?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2002 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

im all for killing the nearest halfing in sight!

the only good halfing is a dead one!! icon_biggrin.gif
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MAX_DAMMIT
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2002 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iff i did'n c it i cant prove it but if one bumbs in to me i open my invent right away (like grabing ur wallet just to make sure) and if i miss something i ask him not to pp.
if he says sorry i warn him to give it back, if he sais he didnt i say okey (must have mist a invis than) and if he starts badmouthing me, well what du u think ill do??
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2002 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol i did not want to comment on this subject but max dammit got to me on that one =D


i usually dont have to much of a problem with thieves because if your a rouge (races dont mean a damn to me) i'll help you out if you are nice to me, if you try to PP me though ill simply tell you not to if you do again 1 last warning then the next time if they push me, a simple kill does the work, i keep alot of bullets for protection and i went ahead and took spot as a cross class skill on most of my chars, so i tested it out with a few rouge peeps i know and every time they tried (we did this about 5 times) i got a message "yadayada is attempting to steal from you!" and then later on a second after that "yadayada stole some gold from you!" or
"yadayada stole a greatsword+3 from you!" just like that, and every time the guys tried i got both messages, and i was fair because i asked them to PP me on purpose and i let em keep the items, but now if your a stealthed rouge i can see you half way across the screen coming for me and detect both you ATTEMPTING TO PP ME and WHAT YOU PPED from me so its pretty cool, i tried this with 3 diff guys, 1 was level 5 (easy as pie) one was a level 9 (still pie) and the other was like a level higher than me like level 16 when i was testing this and I STILL detected even him, i was falling over stoned at myself because the whole GOD DAMN TIME I MEANT TO BE TAKING TAUNT DAMNIT then i started laughing about it and realized i think i liked spot better lol.... one thing that did bother me tho, was that all the thieves never failed getting an item from me icon_confused.gif which meant they musta had insane dex and skill focus pick pocket and PP items, which is disturbing lol.... what the hell are thieves upto these days!!?!?!? insanity either way i'm now happy i took spot on my melee char name "Jonathan" for those of you who know me good and well, screw taunt now because it seems everyone TAKES CONCENTRATION even the damned monks and rouges so blow taunt it never works stupid little crap lol... im happy tho now i did not see i was takin spot (guess it pays to look) either way whatever if you are stupid enough to pp me when im playing shadow or whatever i dont have to worry about spot since i got see invis if you "bump" me, its instant death, i dont care if your a fighter wearing full plate i dont like my personal 3 ft space area being violated, thats a freaking rule... violate my personal body space and your a dead ass X_X
icon_wink.gif

LOL whatever!!!

wtf am i talking about anyway? i thought i was going to comment on max dammits post but i forgot...

oh i remember now

if i see a thief bump me, finger of death=poof dead thief i think thats what im was gonna just say without all the mess above =\
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2002 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

id like to eliminate RKing too but that aint ever gunna happen and u know it icon_wink.gif


RKing = Revenge killing
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MAX_DAMMIT
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2002 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rking is a bad thing

if u tax me and i kill u TUFF the way things go

But nooooooooooo they have to gang up and hunt me

Iff ur gona tax me u got to have the balls to face the consequences alone
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Kindo
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2002 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It just would be fun if more people just played along when bad things happen.
Not just start taking it personal when your CHARACTER loses an item or whatever.

So many keeps focusing on nothing but money and experience.
I plead to you to stop that, and keep ROLEPLAYING even if you lose a certain item.

The RP:ing must improve if this mod is to survive.
So I ask, for the better of everyone, don't take things personal.
Stay in character and Roleplay even when you are the victim of another character's evil deeds.


Edit: I actually met a guy today who was believing that stealing was "not Roleplay". It is true. He really took things personal.
I witnessed the whole thing. He started shouting and yelling.
Then he left with a caps-shout that went like this:
"THIEVES ARE STUPID FUCKERS WHO SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED IN HERE!!!"

He sure got some problems with Roleplay. Falkhor compares it to Monopoly (you actually CAN lose money etc.).
I like to ask people if they ever played P&P, which this game is based on.
In P&P things don't go so well all the time. Atleast not for me.
I often jsut loose the weapon I just have bought to some thief stealing it or a guard confiscating it.
But I do not start yelling at my DM!!
(Do you do that when playing P&P? I don't think so.)
My character can act a little saddened or upset for a while, but then it's just to get back on.
Keep playing.
I actually enjoys P&P the most when my hardass DM gets me into trouble.

As this is based on P&P, where evil things can happen to your character.
Why should the rules change to 'no evil allowed' when playing on a PC instead of writing on a paper?
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Brycy K1D
PostSat 11/23/02 6:39am
I have just made a rogue and i am in search of friends. If u see me give out a Hail! and i will gladly come poke u for 4 gold coins. Thank you.  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2002 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pnp means nottin in a computer game, this thing was made for the masses!

unless its a dm and his usual players i dont see how can anyone compare it

kindo your a fool!!!!!!!!! shame on you sinner

i mean think about it , imagine a pnp game with 50 people ? pretyt much impossible right? , well its the same thing here, play it as what it is "a computer game", where when you hit a monster it throws a lot of numbers that you can use for testing different equipment to see what works and what doesnt

Cheers!
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Kindo
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2002 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ogt man.

It is made to be as much like the P&P as possible.
We are simply trying to help that process by adding/discussing more rules to follow.

Are you sure you do not want it do be as much like the real thing as possible?
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2002 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no no, that would require too much typing , and talking is always better for discussions and stuff, am too lazy to read long posts or big arguments that dont fit my chat wíndows, when there a lot of people arguing in game, i just go take a beer until its over, or i start drinking in game and just kill em all when they are off guard, that works too, they stop typing, and start huntin me, thats more fun than writin
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2002 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I totally agree with Kindo, there needs to be more RPing in Dyso. But that doesnt mean ppl cant focus on experience and money. Thats what a lot of real ppl do. They focus on getting better(moving up in the world), and they want more money. So it's not really bad RP when you focus on money and experience.

Also, Ogt doesnt get it. Maybe he should be punished for bad RPing or something.

And actually its a lot like pen and paper. Even when there are 30 ppl in the game, because the only reason DMs never play with 30 ppl, is that it would be unbearable to manage. But now that there are computers, they can take over the role of DM, and do it better at some points. But at certain points worse.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2002 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i love being pp'd icon_biggrin.gif icon_biggrin.gif
it always happens to me while im in combat so i don't notice anyway.
but untill now people have only stolen things like bulllets slaad tonques en some money (and greater orbs of pain icon_biggrin.gif ) but if they stole something like blackrazor or an axe of the culling (wich i don't have yet) i would get pissed to especially because you don't suddenly bump up to someone and steal an enormous axe. and i must say that the first time i got stolen i didn't think about the rp aspect too i was just pissed but then kindo reminded me that i should stay in character so i've been staying in character ever since. but i think that your reaction mostly depends on how much you like rpíng but remember people DYSO ISN"T ROLE PLAY FOR NOTHING!!!!! it's role play because the creators wnated role play in dyso and sop do i!!!!.
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Falkhor
PostTue 11/26/02 11:06am
woohoo someone who gets it!  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2002 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But u must agree with the stealing axe thing

U do feel a axe of 30kgr taken out of ur backpack icon_biggrin.gif
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2002 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree completely. if i worked for Bioware I'd suggest they changed the diffculty rate based on the size of an object. Pickpocketing money is dead simple for a trained thief, taking out an armor weighing a couple of kilo's is not. Then again most people run around with backpacks filled with heavy objects and sporting a strength well over the normal human limit so one could wonder whether it is truly that noticable to a person with gigantic strength with the weight being relative compared to his strength.
It's just likely a person like that would just think:"ah glad I'm recovering some of my strength again, this bag was getting damn heavy".
But i do agree that heavy large items should be more difficult to pp, not likely to see that being implemented by Bioware though...
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Kindo
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2002 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well. I do not think we can make the inventory to be totally realistic.

But difficulty rating depending on size of item definitly should be fixed.
Fallout-series have that. Gives you like a penalty on Steal-skill depending on size.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2002 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

of course if size plays a role then a thief should be able to distinguish between object sizes to determine what is a reasonable risk in his opinion, i mean technically it's not like a rogue is just sticking his hand in someone's backpack to yank out the first object he finds. He usually has a fair dosis of common sense and that big bulge on the right in that enormous backpack is likely an armor which he knows will be very hard to pick so he goes for the moneypouch dangling from the side.
The inventory thing is never gonna be completely realistic.

*rummages through Ameli's backpack and yanks out an heavy armor+5 with the same ease as he would a bullet*
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2002 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that the only thing that would balance the game regarding roge is an annonymiser:

a item that annonymise the name of the rogue when he PP
because even it you cought they guy hand in the bag, and see his face..
your never get his 'name and adress'
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Kindo
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2002 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would be for the general players aswell.

Will be quite complicated to do.
For real you do not know the name of the guy you meet for the first time on the street.

Good RP:ers know this and introduces themselves etc.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2002 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A general anonymizer would be good. At least one that erases a person's name when they wear some kind of headgear. I mean you can plan an ambush in incredible detail but it's bloody idiotic when your helmet is still nametagged for everyone to read your name floating over your head. While technically the name shouldn't pop up until you announce it to someone, having your name disappear when wearing a helmet would be a major leap forward.
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Glorin
PostTue 11/26/02 7:40pm
I want ioun stones!!  Reply with quote
 
Kindo
PostTue 11/26/02 7:56pm
Ioun stones? The ones in BG series?
They are part with Conrads shipment of new items.
All remade.
Check them out, very cool.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2002 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't do all of them, but I did do most of them. icon_smile.gif Admittedly there's no way to graphically represent a stone orbitting your head in game so I had to use a helmet model ... I picked the pot helmet because, other than at the very beginning, no one uses them. icon_smile.gif I did give them nice colors, tho. icon_smile.gif Heh.
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GorbGuy
PostWed 11/27/02 4:27am
Ioun stones are cool, but where are the Epic items! icon_smile.gif  Reply with quote
 
Glorin
PostWed 11/27/02 5:52am
i just wish u culd make them have the same appearance as they did in BG2  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2002 10:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Epic Reply with quote

GorbGuy wrote:
Ioun stones are cool, but where are the Epic items! icon_smile.gif



i know what you mean man, nwn sucks for epic rules, the closest thing i could think of would be to make the servers remove "Item Level Restrictions" and put in BALANCED items of around say, level 25 or so, nothing godly ubered, except ARTIFACTS which should be made by DM and ONLY Handed by the DM since these would change the world entirely....


Epic..

only thing i could think of close enough to epic levels and rules =D

man i cant wait for the expansion with epic levels icon_wink.gif
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