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Hardcoding guilds into Dyso

 
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Nefiorim
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2003 1:46 pm    Post subject: Hardcoding guilds into Dyso Reply with quote

With the guild tokens this will sort of happen anyways, but I have thought of something loosely based on the factions idea of UO.

The thing is, I think we should have guilds hardcoded into Dyso (as for requirements of a guild to actually be hardcoded in I leave that for later discussions). Guilds could get experience and gold (possibly also items or whatever) based on how they rate as roleplayers or how they perform in guild vs. guild warfare or other actions. The guildmaster/masters could then possibly redistribute the XP and gold amongst their members, with set maximums per day or per week or whatever.

This "could" improve roleplay. I kind of thought of this when Dennis and I were talking. He was complaining that it was hard to gain levels from 7 - 14 without breaking character (going a bit OOC). As an example he talked about his pally (Ameli?) fighting spiders for xp all day long, since he couldn't improve any other way. I can see that a paladin wouldn't fight spiders all day long, but rather skeletons or something. So basically we need another way to gain xp while still being able to roleplay. That necessity basically made me think of solutions, and the above suggestion might be one of em.

Please post comments on this here. I'd basically like to know if this idea is at all possible, and if so, on what points it should be improved.


[edit] Another thing, this would also prevent certain guilds from "bleeding to death" because of lack of roleplay or other issues. No guild that people work/worked hard for should deserve to fade away, so this could also in some way be looked at as some sort of reward for guild accomplishments. [/edit]
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2003 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, it is impossible to improve in levels without breaking character. It goes fine for levels 5-10 or so. But evenetually, you have to break character. My paladin, Arn, managed to level 7 fighting evil bandits. And that is a quest. Then the quests stopped, and I was forced to break character to improve levels. As it is utterly stupid just to go off hunting ogres (at that time) just for training. Same goes for Ameli, she is not a crusader either, so she spending two days in the spider forest was totally OOC really. And I know, it is like this because there are no quests, except for the newbie quest bandits and the level 20 party quest emeralds. Bri has half-wise promised he'll make more quests when he has finished tradeskills, so it will get better in a while.

I agree with Nef here, this could really improve both roleplay and gaming experience. But this would put a huge responsibility on the guild leaders (as it is those who distribute the rewards), and also the seriousness of the guild is really important. We all know there are some crappy guilds here. And there are very few guild-leaders at the moment that I really trust will do a good job on this. The only two I know of right now that would manage this good is Falkhor for the LS and Conrad for the SB. So, to have this work, we need to be sure that the guilds recieving these powers, are to be trusted 100% to do the job properly. And not for players to go nag on their leaders: "Hey, yesterday I killed a member f the lost guard, can you give me some exp?" and such.

It will be really hard to have this working with all the cheaters/exploiters/powergamers and other lamers out there. But the idea is great. It would (hopefully) add more roleplay and fun to the players.
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ShadowCore
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2003 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, i like this, it would be great to see it, it would give the guilds something more to do, than just continue with their wars, and it would give rewards and more reasons to join any guild, but, as Kindo said, the guild leaders should be trusted with the XP. I can be trusted, i know i won't cheat or be unfair on distributing xp and gold, but i know that you can think that i'm just saying that so it will get implemented. But if it does get implemented, there is still one problem, how will people that are doing pretty good within a guild, but almost never meet in-game with the master, experience? There should be some way to just say that someone gains experience, without both people being on-line.
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Snares
PostMon 01/06/03 3:23pm
Guild tokens... hardcoding...? Sounds like an interesting concept here...  Reply with quote
 
Kindo
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2003 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

But if it does get implemented, there is still one problem, how will people that are doing pretty good within a guild, but almost never meet in-game with the master, experience? There should be some way to just say that someone gains experience, without both people being on-line.


I know, it is more realistic if the guild-leader would not have to be nearby etc. But it is needed. Someone in charge whom we can trust to do a great job. No cheating. He will have to be the boss of everything or something. It would be a security-measure.
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zak_fel
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2003 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guild wars!!!

fight for land! loot! and most of all!!

A place to call home!! A city or village or town!
doesnt matter!!!

Lets Rumble!
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2003 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hell yeah, and make corpses lootable godammit icon_twisted.gif and level loss on death for some real action


lets kick some ass


WAR@!!!@@1111
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2003 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great, thanks for adding something serious to this discussion guys. This is exactly the shit that makes me discouraged to read through the forums. Here's nef with an excellent idea for improved roleplaying, and you two just GOT to ruin it with your silly remarks. Thanks alot.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2003 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i suggested something valid, and so did zak, he said we think this is a good idea and should be implemented, zak and my comments were vital, and i made a really awsome suggestion too, lootable corpses and level loss on death, awsomest idea ever!!!


zak suggestion: loot, thats always something to fight for, great idea zak, you rock man!!!

hehe
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2003 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thks Jon icon_smile.gif

Why isnt having guild wars a good idea?
we already have the WhiteRose and the Lost Guard fighting it out?
i kill u today, u kill me tmr, ill kill u again the next

get out of ya shell Kindo, fighting between the players is an excellent idea!

Give us something to fight for,man?
We have power gamers rushing for every emerald quest everytime the server resets, either the Emerald or TQ (the whiterose tends to get both)

after that?
what next!?
Some WhiteRose decides to wack a lost guard, and a whole war erupts

u think guild wars arent already happening??
if ya so against this idea..might was well turn of the party pvp
and MAKe the Entire Dyso Non Pvp

its not like we are asking for much?!
the Drow invasion Falk was trying to set up WAS damn excellent!!
Here we have a DM with the creativity to allow the players to RP and interact
the entire WhiteRose and Lost Guard alliance to defeat the common enemy was Classic!!

All my active chars are either Drow or Half Drow...and how does one RP a drow!?!?
im not talking abt random pking..thats not even what Drow do!

Drows will wage war among themselves and in some instances...against the other races (Dwarves of Mithrall Hall..etc)

Combat and battles are as much RP as pping
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2003 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heck yeah, wars rule, and they need more of them muahahahahaha

Ain't it great :: grabs his spiked gauntlets :: lets box Muahahaha


Lol i find the one on , "a white rose wacks a lost guard and a war erupts" ROFLMAO

omfg i was crying on the floor laughing at it
cause thats about it lol


anyway they need some real reasons to war and not just some lame "im god" kind of crap, and make death mean something!!!!

people respawn and come back fully charged with no loss of xp or gold and start it all over again, make death mean something dammit.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2003 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only problem with death penealties is that it may cause Dysotopia to become "Land of the Uber Characters". I think this will lead to Dyso becoming more of an action server than a RP server. Some might say it leans to far that way already. What is the point of being a balanced character when Uber-Char can smite you with one mighty blow in battle?



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2003 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snewo, listen closely, and listen good, when they do this for lootable corpses, that will be when the VAULT WIPES, meaning that alot of the stuff will have been revised, the only problem i am trying to stress is to GET THIS IN BEFORE it wipes!!! because then it will be too late to implement it!!!!!! or right when they do wipe the vault, but PLEASE do this as they need a very more life like death for RP, if you want whats in dyso currently you can find it on ANY action local vault arena, die, resawn come back and nothing means jack!!!

Damnit.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2003 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and about uber chars smiting you in battle with one blow, lemme say: LOL

aint gonna happen even if a level 20 hits a level 5 he wont kill him in one hit (unless he lands a mean ass crit) as it takes time to knockdown about 70 hp, tho you can do it in 1 round with 5 apr.... lol
spiders only have 130-170 hp and it takes melee awhile to take em out ;0
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2003 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you mean WHEN they do this Jon? Is this set in stone? If so could you post a link to where I can learn more about how we're going to implement it?

I agree we need a little more penalty for death, but I don't have to agree to your idea of how to do that.

I don't mind the level loss on death idea, but I'd like it to start around level 10 personally. Up till then I'd suggest an increasing percentage based loss of XP and GP. The lootable corpses idea is an issue with me. I like it if I kill a thief who just stole from me (so I get my stuff back). I don't like it if I get killed everytime I wander in a PVP area because some non-RPer decided he wanted my stuff.

My comment was true in at least some respects though Jon. I know I'll make an uber char if I start get killed and stripped everytime I go to a PVP area.

It's not up to us anyway Jon. I look forward to seeing what the developers do, I'm enjoying everything so far.


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ShadowCore
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, although permanent death would be interesting, you are forgetting something: People can die, and when they do they won't be happy with it, this can be very good and fun, but it does mean that most of the bosses are too strong, it's not that hard to get killed nowadays. And if you've just made you're fun new character, you go to the bandits, fail a save, and die, you've just lost a level, you are level 4 again, and you probably can't level up, because you can't handle the enemies that exist at that point.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

And if you've just made you're fun new character, you go to the bandits, fail a save, and die, you've just lost a level, you are level 4 again, and you probably can't level up, because you can't handle the enemies that exist at that point.



First of all, you aint supposed to be going alone ShadowCore, because thats sad, at level 5 you wanna just solo everything until you reach 20, still a power gamer I see, what you should do is form a low level party where all can get some benefits of experience and money, instead of just trying to solo your way through, with this new system it will make people rely on each other instead of their... "1337 Ski||z" and garbage and actually force some RP.


Bah@ ShadowCore.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not a powergamer, and have never been one either, i don't want to solo everything, but i just started a new char, walked to the first group of enemies i encountered, failed a save(a 1), was held, and got killed. Now, if i would've lost a level there, and i was someone new, i owuld probably have left. Besides, i rp, i dont consider myself"1337", or any other stuff like that, but it won't dyso any good, at the LOWER LEVELS, if you were to instate that it would only go fo r say lvl10 and up, i would be happy.
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Nefiorim
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay I have been watching this discussion (and many like it in other threads), but there's one thing that always makes me wonder about what the hell we actually have forums for.

There's a group of people consistently changing the topic in a forum to another one. Come on, if you have a totally new valid idea or point of view or whatever CREATE A NEW TOPIC. Don't f*ck up an old one.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to say the concept of Guild tolkens is a good one...and with the added ability of the Guild master to reditrubute xp's and gold....nice touch.

I would love to see guilds get more custom options. Not to build uber charactors, but to add diversity and enhance the way a guild works.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

I am not a powergamer, and have never been one either, i don't want to solo everything, but i just started a new char, walked to the first group of enemies i encountered, failed a save(a 1), was held, and got killed



first of all, you just proved my point, POWERGAMER, if you had someone watching your back, like a cleric or another fighter to help you out, ya wouldnt have died RIGHT?! correct, you would have lived, so tell me wise ass, why were trying to solo? because you were trying to level and be a powergamer. thats why.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, I was'nt soloing because of that, i was just walking up there, HOPING TO MEET SOMEONE TO TEAM UP WITH, there weren't that many people on at that time. Then, while i walked ahead looking for a teammate, i encountered the bandits and got killed, btw, it probably would've happened to me anyway, even if i had a cleric or mage or whatever wathing my back.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've read this by thre past 2 days and I do have some comments.

Guilds:

In my time in dyso I've never joined a guild, not even once. It doesn't have to do with the fact that I'm C(G,N,E) most of the time and therefore consider myself to be a free spirit, doing as I please, minding my own business, and of course not taking orders from anyone. No, it has to do with the fact that there's simply a wrong concept of what a guild could be so it collides with my own concept, leaving me not wanting to join any particular dyso guild. Now let's move to the concept:

guild also gild (g'ld)
n.

1. An association of persons of the same trade or pursuits, formed to protect mutual interests and maintain standards.
2. An association of men belonging to the same class, or engaged in kindred pursuits, formed for mutual aid and protection.

Take any of those, apply the worldwide known concept to dyso current guilds and as a result you have = none. Now, I'm taking all this from my personal relationships with guild members and just a simple point of view, to each it's own, not trying to offend guild leaders or guild projects so don't get your pants in a hurry.

Quote:

I would love to see guilds get more custom options. Not to build uber characters, but to add diversity and enhance the way a guild works.


Wise and true, I for one would love to see that as well. Yet all I see it's a guild leader recruiting people, next thing you know within the space of 1-2 days you have yet another lvl 20 under your command. RP? I doubt it. Guilds I've seen are all about making their characters uber, same set of armor/items combinations, the works. I killed him, now I run cause I'm alone, oh they killed a guild member, let's cause some havoc. So you have 10-20 guys fighting over each other, believing they're roleplaying the whole way through and I for one don't think its the best concept that could apply to them.

Now I would take this and put an example over it. I was present at the latest sylvandale war of both Lgog and the WR's, I was invited by Drudley to join one, was trying to see this exact same point so I decided to stay in party for a while while reading their party talk, then I quitted after a few minutes and got an invite from muric, to join the other, did the same thing, watched party talk, at the end I left and decided to watch the war, excellent war indeed, yet all that party talk I watched, was strictly OOC, a sign of roleplay anywhere? When Falkhor came in with the elves. But inside guilds? none whatsoever.

So for developers to give any kind of custom items to guild leaders, they will not only need to be extra careful about who they choose. Especially when it comes to rewarding with xp/gold -since I quote ogt here, you give them the tool to exploit and you tempt people-, but I do believe this would require heavy DM interaction, one which devotes sometime to X guild, one that watches them closely, and then, and ONLY then, give rewarding tools on a PC's hand. So imo, nef's idea it's very good in theory yet when it comes to making it practical it simple isn't when it comes to analyzing the 2 most known guilds.

Edit - Missing Paragraph

Now, for those new guilds I've seen building up lately, HG, OHW, TDC and so on. I can't speak for them yet as I hold very little knowledge of them, I'm keeping an eye on one of them since I do have a close relationship in-game to one of its member/leaders yet they are still to "young" and therefore I can't simply voice an opinion. So I would like to leave them out of this, I'm not generalyzing just simple stating known facts and guilds history over my time in dysotopia.

Get a kindred pursuit, establish a leader and therefore a chain of command -since the leader won't and can't be around all day long-, don't turn guilds into -only level 20 parties-, roleplay your common interest, define levels, set internal quests, ask for a place to do your meetings -like mages guild-, evolve not only with your character but get to evolve with other guild members, promote low level party's within the guild, don't just rush EC/TQ and then buy them gloth items, you know, the works. And then, talk about giving guilds more custom options/items.

That all being said. You can all start the flames icon_wink.gif
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Jon316
PostTue 01/07/03 6:15pm
well said, she hit the nail on the head.  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[Well said indeed Kuma, i agree with you, fully. Also, as so many do, you are not counting my guild, we do nothing of the likes you said(i think), and i was actually trying to purchase a building in Eleriina West for meetings.]
That has become irrelevant.
Alright then, I have nothing to say anymore now, Kuma, thank you.
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