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Questions Concerning Implementation

 
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Muric
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2003 6:11 pm    Post subject: Questions Concerning Implementation Reply with quote

Gesh and Bri, this project is very big news. The addition of complete persistancy, as well as a complete mod re-write is quite exciting to say the least. My thanks for all the hard work that each of you put into the mod that we all enjoy so much. I have a few questions about implementation that I would like to ask. I realize you may not have all the answers right now, but any info you could give on them is much appreciated.

(1) You consider the "current" version of Dysotopia to be the one on the test server, and you stated that this will be the version left for public use during the development of Dysotopia: The Rebirth. The question is, when will this be moved to the main server?

(2) As you know, the current test server version is quite different from the current main server in very, very big ways. Will you wipe the main server and test server vault when you move the test mod to the main?

(3) How many months do you expect the development of Dysotopia: The Rebirth to take?

(4) Will tradeskills be implemented in any form for the "current" version of Dysotopia, or will those have to wait for Dystopia: The Rebirth?

Again, this is very exciting news. Thanks for taking the time to read the questions.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2003 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, i am also COncerned, i am also very Excited.

what i dont want to see happen, is a split player base between current Dyso, and this Test one....
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2003 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I kind of wonder the same things. I mean, currently you are working (have been working) on tradeskills to be implemented in Dysotopia v3.xx. Will that project just fade away? Will the development on the current Dyso just simply cease? It will make it a bit boring, as this Rebirth project will probably take A L O T of time before it is open for public playing.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2003 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree. it will take a long time

i say we give them 2 week's and they, open the mod, half assed, and update it nightly/Daily.

I know that sound's boring but at least, we know every time we connect, a New Version is their, and a little more to Explore

this way the Community, is not Devided
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2003 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

i say we give them 2 week's

icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif
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Marine436
PostTue 02/18/03 7:24pm
you SOOO took that out of contex  Reply with quote
 
Solo_Core
PostTue 02/18/03 7:25pm
icon_mrgreen.gif
sorry that's how i read it the first time.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2003 8:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Questions Concerning Implementation Reply with quote

(1) You consider the "current" version of Dysotopia to be the one on the test server, and you stated that this will be the version left for public use during the development of Dysotopia: The Rebirth. The question is, when will this be moved to the main server?

Yes, this will be "cleaned up" and placed on the live server. There will most likely be only one pimped live server when we're working on Rebirth. It'll be put live as soon as it's cleaned up and we get all the -major- bugs out.


(2) As you know, the current test server version is quite different from the current main server in very, very big ways. Will you wipe the main server and test server vault when you move the test mod to the main?

Yes, the vault will be wiped on the main server to make way for the new version release.


(3) How many months do you expect the development of Dysotopia: The Rebirth to take?

I'd say it'll take about 36-48 months before it's ready for a beta. icon_mrgreen.gif The key here is that each time a new AREA is completed (because of how it's being designed) we'll be updating the MOD on the servers. That way, when there is an update, it's something you'll notice and have a lot of new things to explore.


(4) Will tradeskills be implemented in any form for the "current" version of Dysotopia, or will those have to wait for Dystopia: The Rebirth?

Unfortunately because of a complete redesign they will have to wait for The Rebirth. BUT, they will be implemented VERY EARLY in Rebirth and will continue to grow in complexity with the MOD itself.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2003 9:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Questions Concerning Implementation Reply with quote

Geshtal wrote:
I'd say it'll take about 36-48 months before it's ready for a beta. icon_mrgreen.gif


LOL

Thanks for taking the time to answer the questions. Your announcement of Dysotopia: The Rebirth did a good job of laying out the long-term vision. My questions were to clear things up for people in the interim period from now until the release of Rebirth. Sounds like the testers need to get busy, and finish the de-bugging of the current test server so you can go live with it!

The complete mod re-write and persistency is great news! Looking forward to it!
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Geshtal
PostTue 02/18/03 10:45pm
No problem Muric! Anyone else have any concerns or questions for me?  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2003 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am just not sure how the Dyso will look like from now on. This is my view of it, although I am a bit slow...

Current Dyso - Will remain as it is, not upgrades, no V 3.xx (tradeskills), and things will keep rolling there for a while. But without any changes.

Rebirth Dyso - Will get up on some kind of test server later, with restricted access for testing. It will be slow development. Area by area.

Now, this looks to me like it will be incredibly dull/slow on the whole Dyso thing. First you have got to bare with the slowliness on the current Dyso, no changes will be made etc. And then, when Rebirth Test finally comes up for the public to join (restricted though), a few people will be able to play. But only ONE area at a time. Like, Eleriina first. PLay JUST eleriina for like, a week. Then maybe the Valley gets added, and you can play there. That will make it REALLY slow to play there (though I would anyway).

And this basically shows to me like it will be a LONG LONG pause in the actual 'gaming' part of Dyso. The current one, will remains as it is, slowly become more and more boring (sorry for being so harsh there), and the rebirth will be VERY small (and restricted).
Correct me if I'm wrong...


And don't get me wrong, this Rebirth thing is a great idea. But it will be much inactivity on the playing part for a very long time, as it seems now.


(And sorry for phrasing/spelling so poorly at the moment)
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2003 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think anyone expects anything less than a slow grow unless Gesh was subcontracting out areas and such ... which I don't think he's gonna do. One of those things where if you want a decent product at the end, you need to take your time with it.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2003 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's some of my questions and comments:

Geshtal wrote:


Can we play test "Rebirth"?
Yes. The new Dysotopia has a system that keeps track of all players, characters and a myriad of other things. In order to test on Rebirth you will be required to register your GameSpy playername with us and to provide accurate real life information such as your e-mail, first name, state & country as well as some other information. This will all be confidential and will be used by the development team for testing purposes. You will only be allowed to register ONE GameSpy account with us. This will allow us incredible control over users insuring that people BEHAVE on the servers or their accounts will be de-activated and characters will be deleted.



I'm already getting that info together.

Geshtal wrote:


What about large scale events?
Player actions as a community will effect how the world is shaped and what eventa are available. One example, as mentioned above, is the war between the kobolds and the goblins. These two races are fighting over sparkling mines. Characters will have the option of taking sides in these wars or trying to get these two waring nations to make peace. The consequences can result in access to rare gem mines or in your being hated by one side or the other. If peace is made, someone can come along and do things to cause these two sides to go to war once again...the choice is up to the community of players.



AWSOME!

Geshtal wrote:


Will DM's be supported?
Eventually. DM's will have to go through a gruelling application process where they will be given the task of DMing events for the developers. If their skills are deemed worthy, they will be given the ability to DM in Dysotopia: The Rebirth. DM's will have to stay in good standing or they will have their titles stripped.



Does this mean there will be NEW DMs and people can apply for a position AS a DM?

2 words describe all of you guys:

YOU ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2003 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, first thing, testing isn't that restricted...it's up to you if you want to give me an accurate e-mail address and I can trust you to trust me with your personal information...like WHERE YOU LIVE. This is a test of character and I know it'll keep a lot of lamers out of the MOD. Serious people that want to come and join us will have the ability to do that. There will be a web submission directly to me where I can activate accounts easily. Once the account is active you get an e-mail notification. I will allow an unlimited number of players to test it...they just need to put the effort into asking me to play. This is done for several reasons...the main reason is control. All banning and other things are now done withing the MOD itself...as opposed to Bioware's weak system. By default, all players are banned...period...and I have to add your PLAYER name to the database in order for it to accept you into the MOD. After you do that you can create 100000 characters in Dyso as usual...and you can re-log as different characters but only once per x amount of time...yes, I'm trusting people not to PK with higher level characters out of revenge. If it starts happening the noose will tighten once again. I will also be keeping track of how many PKs a character makes as well as have the ability to track how many PKs a PLAYER has made...if it get's obsessive then you'll be punished...no more putting up will all this bull...I'm sick of hearing about people doing it as well as being sick about people doing it period. If you break my rules...you will be banned for a set amount of time. We are here to role play and have fun, not create bad feelings for other players. I will not stand for it.

All in all, EVERYTHING abut your character will be tracked in a large database...and I will be doing reports of the top 10 PKers on the MOD, the top 10 looters...I'll keep track of the richest players and the poorest players...who has done the most quests and who hasn't done any...these statistics will help me to determine who may be exploiting and who is in need of help. I obviously can't trust some of you out there to report all bugs so I'll be doing things my way instead. Big brother WILL be watching you every move...icon_mrgreen.gif

Scared yet? You should be because this is just the tip of the iceberg! There are things I won't even dare tell you about implementing...the purpose of Rebirth is to do what we have already done...RIGHT.

It's gonna be slow, yes, but it'll be fun. Eleriina is a HUGE city with a TON of thigns to do...it consists of 8 20x20 areas and even has it's own wilderness area inside the city walls. That will be the first release of Rebirth and will have plenty for players to do including the good old arenas and other new areas. Houses will have PEOPLE in them that actually perform functions. It will also have it's own quest generator so there will be quite a few quest possibilities if you get bored.

Everything worth waiting for takes a long time to make...and I'm expecting a lot of players to wander off...but I'm just hoping that when we get back to where we are now we'll have a decent following. icon_mrgreen.gif
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2003 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geshtal wrote:


All in all, EVERYTHING abut your character will be tracked in a large database...and I will be doing reports of the top 10 PKers on the MOD, the top 10 looters...I'll keep track of the richest players and the poorest players...who has done the most quests and who hasn't done any...these statistics will help me to determine who may be exploiting and who is in need of help. I obviously can't trust some of you out there to report all bugs so I'll be doing things my way instead. Big brother WILL be watching you every move...icon_mrgreen.gif

Scared yet? You should be because this is just the tip of the iceberg! There are things I won't even dare tell you about implementing...the purpose of Rebirth is to do what we have already done...RIGHT.



3 things:
icon_arrow.gif top 10 of stuff=GOOD IDEA! Will keep us aware
icon_arrow.gif Scared? Naw I'm a serious player I dont PK or PP very much. I havent been in trouble on Dyso as far as I can remember and i'm gona keep it that way
icon_arrow.gif CANT WAIT FOR THE TEST MOD! I'm gonna be one of the first people sending you my info. Expect it Gesh, every last thing will be the truth! Promise.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2003 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the thing about you'll be having all info (both real life and game life) doesn't scare me one bit. I will more than happily tell you my exact location with street address and all, or even the number of pubic hairs I have. I just want to be able to play in the mod, it really sounds like alot of fun and I honestly can't stand the current Dyso anymore (sorry).

I have to go to bed now, talkk about that later when you'll start taking in applications. cool.gif
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2003 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gesh this is beginning to sound very ... BG2-ish. That is a very GOOD thing. icon_smile.gif
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2003 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bring on the unseeing eye icon_razz.gif icon_lol.gif (some of you know of what i speak icon_wink.gif)
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2003 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn cults.. away with them icon_smile.gif
So when will the KWM have a city to protect once more? icon_smile.gif
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2003 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in.


I only have techie style questions.

1. Did they release a Linux verison of the NWNx database system, or are you breaking down and going to Windows?

2. You will have a backup strategy right?

3. Does this change require any downloads on our part, or is everything server-side?

4. Does NWNx require higher server requirements? Does the databse run on a separate database machine or on the same server?

5. Can you tell I work in IS?



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2003 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Did they release a Linux verison of the NWNx database system, or are you breaking down and going to Windows?
Not yet. I think he said he is gonna release one more closed source version then he'll be releasing the source so someone can port it over to Linux.

2. You will have a backup strategy right?
Backups for the vault and DB, yes. icon_smile.gif


3. Does this change require any downloads on our part, or is everything server-side?
Server side for the time being. Eventually when we actually add new spells and things we'll have a hak pack...but it will be broken into many small pieces and will be available via a web-based installer written by yours truely. It'll allow new updates to the hak pack with a minimal download time...only getting those pieces that have changed.

4. Does NWNx require higher server requirements?
Not really. It's a pretty small app (60k) and all it does is monitor a small (1k/4k by default) block of memory used for passing SQL data back and forth.

4. Does the databse run on a separate database machine or on the same server?
The plan is to have the Vault and the DB on their own server. This will also host the Dyso.com site. Then we will have the main server that simply hosts the resource intensive nwnserver app. The test server will have it's own vault, DB and nwnserver running on it since it will only support 16 or so players at a time.

5. Can you tell I work in IS?
Yes icon_mrgreen.gif
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2003 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll add in a little more info here as well...

Geshtal wrote:
2. You will have a backup strategy right?
Backups for the vault and DB, yes. icon_smile.gif

We have one now, and it works. Runs at Noon and Midnight EST.

Geshtal wrote:
4. Does NWNx require higher server requirements?
Not really. It's a pretty small app (60k) and all it does is monitor a small (1k/4k by default) block of memory used for passing SQL data back and forth.

Assuming that this program is updated. There were some memory leaks on larger mods being reported (aps and nwnx using like 70-90% of processor,) during my last reading (last week.)

Geshtal wrote:
4. Does the databse run on a separate database machine or on the same server?
The plan is to have the Vault and the DB on their own server. This will also host the Dyso.com site. Then we will have the main server that simply hosts the resource intensive nwnserver app. The test server will have it's own vault, DB and nwnserver running on it since it will only support 16 or so players at a time.

I hope this isn't the plan. dysotopia.com should be it's own server, hosted as it is now, by Fooz. Then, we will have the servervault/db server on it's own system, then a main server for the apps. The reason I say that the web and the sql/servervault should be seperate, is because of the volume of forum traffic + SQL Server instance (if I have my way, Oracle or mySQL, no buggy M$ crap here! icon_smile.gif ) + the volume of SQL transactions + volume of servervault traffic + traffic from backups of all four, twice daily = one slow bugger of a system. The current works well now (traffic wise), servervault + serverapp on suse and serverapp alone on linux.

Geshtal wrote:
5. Can you tell I work in IS?
Yes icon_mrgreen.gif

Me too! icon_cool.gif
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2003 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When's the wipe gonna be? I wish it was soon! Can you wipe the vault now, lower the xp % given, and THEN tell us when "The Rebirth" is ready? I REALLY don't feel like waiting till this comes out to have the vault wiped....

EDIT: AWWWW
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PostThu 02/20/03 9:43pm
It'll be wiped when 3.xa goes live...untli then you'll have to continue to suffer. :/  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2003 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait, we forgot the most important question of all. With the database keeping everything persistant, will the skulls retain the information of the person who was killed?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

::Falls off chair backwards::

Allison, forgeting that she is a fictional character, quickly searches for her real live identity.

::raises hand::

Sign me up sir!



Wow this all sounds great Gesh!
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2003 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

snewo wrote:
Wait, we forgot the most important question of all. With the database keeping everything persistant, will the skulls retain the information of the person who was killed?


We may do away with skills...since all kills are tracked in the database and anyone can log into the admin pages to see the list of ALL player kills. It'll show you who killed who, where they were killed and what time it occurred. People can confirm kills all through the web reporting. Also, if you're concerned about proving you assasinated someone, that is tracked also. The person that put the hit out get's an e-mail report when the assasination has taken place with all the details and you automatically get the reward. icon_mrgreen.gif
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