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My last post (either read all or none of it, do not skim)
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Griff
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 2:03 am    Post subject: My last post (either read all or none of it, do not skim) Reply with quote

Ok, this will probably be my last ever post on these forums, I’ve become so sick of the retarded rules, the stupid decisions and peoples’ general attitudes. So here is my final rant…..

First of all I’d like to say how disappointed I am when I just realized the last post I made, which was on Sunday had been deleted. Whoever deleted it, I would just like to say you are a retard. Yes, that’s right, you’re a person who obviously cannot take the truth and doesn’t believe in free speech, as it would have stayed up there if you did.

Secondly, I find it rather humorous that I’ve not only been permanently banned from Dyso, but my account on these forums has also been made inactive, meaning I can’t access it. You’re making me out as though I’m some lamer who goes around rezraping, excessively pking, and exploiting everyone and everything and breaking the EULA frequently. I don’t know a single person who has been banned be punished this harshly.

What was my crime? Well, it was much worse than all of those put together – I was a member of an insurance company in Dyso. Yes, I was trying to roleplay evil as best I could, and as a result I get perma-banned, and my account removed from the forums. Now, there is this (dumb) rule made by Bri – you can’t scam people on this server. Well this insurance thing wasn’t a scam, people who paid money to us actually did get protection, those that didn’t pay up got jumped by some “mysterious” shadowed figure further down the road. I thought this was an ingenius idea (it wasn’t my idea) to be evil and roleplay it. But some retarded child who has just joined the server decides that he’ll try his best to get some good loyal players banned because he got the shit-end of our business. What does Bri do? Listen to the newb, or some of the oldest players on this mod, or get both sides of the story and then make a judgment? Well, I would have gone for the third, or perhaps the second if I didn’t think of the third, but CERTAINLY not the first. And surprise surprise, Bri chooses option 1. Incredible! Well you know who you are (I mean Mr. Newb), and I know what kind of person you are as well. If you can’t get your way or if someone does something that pisses you off, you’ll make it your life’s ambition to harm those that got in your way, instead of saying “oh well shit happens, I’ll get them back someday!” and just shrug it off. Mr. Newb, you are THE most annoying person I’ve ever had the misfortune of knowing. You got what you wanted anyway, so I guess you’re happy.

Bri also says the reason why scamming, taxing etc. isn’t allowed anymore is because someone abused it and spoiled it for everyone else. Now this I also find laughable.

EXAMPLE

A teacher decides to reward her class of 50 pupils by each giving them a bar of chocolate. She says to them “Right children, since you’ve been good all this week I’ve decided to reward you by buying these chocolates for you. As you leave the classroom, you may take 1 and only 1 bar of chocolate each.
So the pupils start to take one bar of chocolate each as they leave. However, the teacher glances over to find that one pupil attempts to take two bars. The teacher goes berserk and she shouts: “RIGHT THAT’S IT!!!! BECAUSE ONE OF YOU TOOK MORE THAN YOUR FAIR SHARE, NONE OF YOU GET ANYTHING!!!”
Do the 49 pupils who took what they were told to take deserve to lose their chocolate bars because ONE INDIVIDUAL tried to take two? Of course they don’t. Do the taxers that abided by Bri’s rules deserve to lose their ability to tax because one person taxed too much? (and this person had little care for dyso at the time anyway, he was on the verge of leaving). Of course they don’t! Another incident badly judged that lead to a lot of complaints from me and others.

I was really frustrated that I’d been permanently banned in the first place, and even more frustrated to find my account in the forums inaccessible. And I am one of the oldest players on this mod who’s never been banned before, I generally stay out of big trouble, I stick to the rules of the EULA, it’s my first offence and I get treated like shit. Also, the reason I got banned in the first place is because I roleplayed evil on a roleplay server. To avoid further confusion in future I would suggest doing one of three things:

1. Remove Dyso from the roleplay room, as it clearly isn’t a roleplay server.
2. On entering dyso, force everyone to change their alignment to lawful good.
3. Reinstate Scamming, taxing and evil roleplay.

You’ll probably take no notice of me as you think that I’m wrong and you’re right. But I know and feel that I’m right here, and so does everyone else, they’re just too afraid to admit it in case they get banned for agreeing with me. This server is not what it used to be, and I’ve watch it decline as retarded rules come into play, and things like Ramar being removed was a big no-no.

But then, I got this e-mail from a friend that gave a damn about me: (sorry I had to include it, I enjoyed reading it so much and I still do).

“so i guess you've been banned for good now.
Its been fun you crazy brit and im sorry to see ya go, things have been hectic lately and I guess im just lucky i've been working on my own mod area thingy and havent been in dyso.

Its rather lame that so many restrictions are being passed, as ogt said evil is down to not healing someone and being mean. I was looking forward to Hash coming back, he finally got bored with other games. He was up to his old house scams again, we talked about how every now and then there is a new era with fresh faces who buy into the scams because they dont know they history behind "Hashmeer Industries". It was all well and good till Hash calls me up the next day and says Uin temp banned him for scamming, eventually it escalated to this...

I've always had fun playing dyso with you, from taxing, to powerleveling...I remember the first time i met you in Local Vault was when i was trying to get into the LoS to destroy it. I was on as some elven rogue chick and come outta the BF rift gate and run on to some traps, then this short guy wearing yellow i think starts attacking me. At least i think that was you..
Back in the old glorious days of the LoS, when Falkhor was the "pimp" of dyso, and people used to shout about how they hated that Falkhor and Griff for stealing their ogre eater hearts. I remember when i told hash to join the LoS because he was a rogue, we see this large crowd of short people with falkhor in the middle and Griff at his side.
Then of course the later days when everyone hated the name Pelando Inn. And all the wars the LoS fought against Ogt or the White Rose. The funniest thing i remember seeing was walking into the kravenwood riftgate temple and seeing Doug the Average run out from the estates only to be stabbed in the back by griff inn. then a few minutes later Kravenwood became No PvP for the first time hehe.
You've been around awhile, and its always been fun playing with ya. especially those times when you say Bloody Hell and the whole party stops to point it out.


guess this is goodbye you ice lolly,

Glorin “


It made me feel so nostalgic, all the anger and frustration just went away. Even though I’m banned, I still love dyso, and I always will, and I thank everyone I’ve known on the server for the most enjoyable time I’ve ever had on any game. But even if I was unbanned, I could not play with so many restrictions, so for most of you this is probably the last you’ll see of me.

Goodbye… and thank you,

Griff

(Have some decency this time and keep this post up eh? At least for a few days anyway).
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pillb0x
PostThu 03/06/03 2:15am
icon_cry.gif  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Griff, I for one will be sorry to see you go. The few times we've run into each other, it has been fun, even though I did know you were PP'ing me. icon_wink.gif But, being the dedicated Dyso dweeb, I have to ask you to reconsider. I know Dyso is going through some weird assed funk right now, but believe me or not (that goes for everyone as well,) I HAVE been trying to come to something on these "let's make up a rule and make it a total 180* from the real RP games" crap that has been happening lately (and you all thought I was just being an asshole for the heck of it!!) I really am trying to stick up for everyone here, especially you evil rogue type people, which has been one of the topics of debate between the moderators. Personally, I side with you, and everyone trying to play an evil character or a rogue. The people that are abusing things out of character are the ones that need to be banned, not the actions. Evil deeds need to be present for game balance, period. Simply put, it (meaning things like scams, insurance, home selling, pick pocketing dead AND undead, etc...) needs to be allowed. Like I stated once before today all ready (me aguing that PP'ing the dead SHOULD be allowed)
GorbGuy wrote:
If we're going to ban all the benefits of the Rouge, why don't we just make things easier, and ban Rouges all together? I forgot whom said it, but while we at it, we can all plant pretty posies through out the island and frollock though them holding hands, singing "Jesus loves the little children."
My point here, Griff, is that there are a lot of things happening all over the map. Mods arguing between players, mods vs. mods, player vs. player, me vs. Gesh! It's something weird, but I think if we hang it out through this weird funk, things will get smoothed out.
Although I don't want to see you go, if you so choose, I respect that decision, but you will be missed by many including myself.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i don't wanna say to much about your ban and breaking of the rules, the rule might be strict or whatever but it is a rule made by bri which to me is as good as being in the EULA and you shouldn't have broken it but tried to find other ways to get your point across. but all that is not what i want to say here, what i want to say is that although i may not have known you as long other people i will miss you too.
i always liked venturing out with you wether it be to hunt balors who are invading the lands or to "learn the lost art of taxing" (didn't learn much though cause you all disapeared into jail icon_rolleyes.gif ) or when you explained what that little hidden part in emerald caves was. but you also tought me to see rp from two sides. rp sucks if it's only fun for me cause i'm not alone in dyso. it was you who made me realize this and i value it still. i liked playing with you and am sorry to see you go. i wish you the best of luck where ever you go.
i guess i'm the only one to warn the people when the balors return now......... icon_cry.gif icon_cry.gif
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jesus, griff, I feel your pain, and being one of the first messengers to Hashmeer (and as close to joining you guys as anyone in the big grave in the ini file) i must say it REALLY sucks that you're gone. We've had some fun times in our day, at least on my part. Have fun doing whatever, and I'll try to get ya' un banned
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   oh ja, ik weet het zonet nog niet
Matthijs says:
   het ziet er toch wel een beetje naar uit dat we nederlands praten
Matthijs says:
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just been hopping around the other RP servers in Lamespy and most, if not all, tend to do it worse than Dyso. Dyso is cool in regards to attitudes, even if a little leftfield, atm.

[rant]
In one server, I was exploring the scenery and one of the major mods said I should "join a party" or be kicked. The long and the short of it was most of the IC roleplay stuff was dealt towards the OOC : ubergamers were killing people whom they have invited to talk and RP stuff because people disagreed with them during the course of IC roleplay, and then rattling off how they would be banning me off their servers because I wouldn't co-operate in their OOC slanging match against me.
[/rant]

Stay around, Griff icon_wink.gif
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, the big guns are all sounding off here. I haven't been here nearly as long as any of you I'm sure, but I certaily appreciate all of you who I've played with. I kind of feel out of place posting here only being a part of this server for a little over a month, but here goes.
I only spent a short time with you Griff, you probably don't even remember it, but you and Anuiron escorted Nei on her first trip into the emerald caves. I had a lot of fun listening to your stories while we camped down there. You're even in my journal: "Kind local, carries torch, and searches for dragon's eye" icon_smile.gif It is really sad to see people like you go. Well, I wish I would have been able to play with you a bit more. I hope as Gorb says Dyso will get out of this funk soon. I do not have any solutions or explinations for what's going on, I just hope it gets cured and quick.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I back you up Griff. Since when was there a rule about no scamming? As long as you are evil, don't OVER do it, stick to your guns, and don't exploit... I see absolutely no problem. Sure, people will get pissed off, but its their problem if they take it out of character and definately shouldn't be your problem out of character. What exactly IS this new rule anyway? I don't think that Bri and Gesh understand how difficult it is to deploy a new rule into lands that have been around for so long... I for one have seen quite a bit of it myself. I've pretty much lost intersest in the old dyso, and look forward to the new one. But until then, I'm not around very much and therefore I don't hear all the rules. So who knows, maybe they did have legit reason. Although I think it is lame for them to ban your forum account... pretty weak blow if you ask me.

But anyway, I've always seen you as a very good RPer for the most part. Definately not worth banning over considering some of the shit I have seen other people try and pull. But hey... not my decision. I'm sorry to see you go and its too bad we couldn't get to know eachother more than we did. I hope to see you back in the new dyso.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, griff, powerful statement up there.
I just wanted to say that I'll miss you, I enjoyed watching you the few times I saw you on-line. It was fun. I'll miss you.
I'm not sure why you've been banned exactly, but if it IS because of the reasons you just named there, I would protest against it heavily. I want you back here, Griff!
Also, why was his foum account banned? He did nothing bad, and he just said some things he very well may have said.

But you shouldn't go so hard on Dyso, I guess it's been quite a bad week for the mods and developers, but I hope they can get it all back together and unban you.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the biggest reason for why we have all these crap rules now is because of mods and this forum, its the only reason we have the rules.

Without forums, they had no where to complain (except that yahoo thing, but i never saw any complaints there) and with no mods they just had no one to complain to, they simply had to deal with it themselves, and either they did or they left.

Damn i miss the good old times, i think we should ban complaining, i bet that we would have alot less complaining and we could get rid of all these crap rules if people just learned to deal with it themselves
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I guess this ends our contract Griff icon_sad.gif damn, Ill miss you, you were a fine evil RPer! I dont think you deserved to get banned.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it's so great to put restrictions on all the scams and such. Both the housescams and taxing are great fun, in my opinion. As long as it is handled somewhat balanced and strictly IC (ie not lie that you're with the developers etc.). But, this is the way things are, and you just got to live with it, people.

Sad to see you go, Griff. I'll miss you. icon_cry.gif
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I have said before the scams and taxing didn't bother me terribly so long as it was done in a reasonable manner. The stuff got hammered on by Bri because when it became such an issue before, resolutions were worked out and everyone seemed to pay lip service to abiding by it (everything from Falk imposing some self-restraint for folks to follow and other things which were a series of compromises between admins and players) ... and then all these things were immediately ignored by several who felt they didn't have to listen to any authority.

That approach towards Bri's authority puts him in a bad position ... does he "cave in" and say "ok fine, you win, forget the limits, I give up, do what you want" or does he stick to his guns and even ratchet the limits up higher? If he caves in, then there is no overall ingame authority ... players will simply do whatever they want, not care, screw the admins ... if you scream enough they'll back down. If he sticks to his guns ... then there's a whole lot of complaints from the other direction ... oh I can't be a rogue, oh I can't play evil ... oh oh oh.

I do agree with Drudley on the fact that the forums often contribute to raising the bloodpressure on a lot of these issues. But just as it has become a bit of a launch bad for people complaining about players abusing other players ... it is also, conversely, a place where the banned or punished immediately run to piss and moan about being slammed by the administration. If I think about it, I might prefer giving up the complaints from one side to be able to punish individuals not not have to hear them whine about it for the next few days. Then all these anti-Uin posts would go away, too, and Uin really could feel free to abuse his power unchecked with no accountability.

As someone else pointed out ... play on a few of the other larger servers ... in most cases you will find the "tyranny" there is far worse. You get booted for not partying up, you get booted for shouting a couple times, you get booted for any sort of PvP behaviour that isn't expressly under the guidance of the moderators or DMs, you get booted if you hang around an area too long and look like you are "powerlevelling" or milking the xp. Dyso, even with limits, often remains one of the most permissive servers insofar as what can happen ... the curse with that is the people getting thrown out of these others servers end up coming here.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well now, and ive been told Dyso was a rp server.

For anyone that read my post on bush saving us from dictatorship, it was a joke.
i meant it as i saw it. Fair enuff, Bri and Gesh are the creators of this mod so they have the right to ban, delete accounts or send a super uber lvl 20 grand dragoon to kill people. Thats all fine, but only if theres a valid reason.

The reason that im the maker of the mod, so what i say is law is not different from Saddam saying im the ruler of iraq, ill kill your family and rape yr women coz i rule this backwater country called iraq, oh and guess wat! ya an iraqi so thats a real bummer for ya! icon_twisted.gif

I pity the day when the most committed and loyal players of this mod get chased out, and thats left are sell proclaimed DMs that have no imagination, creativity and depth, and mods that ban and jail people just coz they felt like it.

Its a good thing i might be getting an Xbox soon, and RainbowSix: raven shield is out.

Word of advice to Griff, find another server that doesnt stab ya in the back icon_wink.gif
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I made one forum post in the month of February. Off topic, in the off topic forum. Neither I nor the other poster in the thread knows why the entire thread was deleted.

I spent a good chunk of time trying to get the League back up and running. My only goal was a fun roleplaying environment, although Srego was really only interested in Chaos.

One of my efforts was a post in the LoS forum listing the areas of guild business. I listed over a dozen, a protection racket was one of them. All of them were intended to increase Dyso's fun level, when used in moderation of course.

If I understand Griff correctly, a protection racket is now a bannable offense. Looking over my copy of the list, I have to conclude that almost all of the areas are now unwanted.

Which means that a thieves guild as I saw it, where "fun and lovable" won out over "those stinking bastards," isn't wanted.

As a DM, I think somebody's making a big mistake. Yes, thieves can be a royal pain in the keister, but I see the potential for a lot of fun.

But, as it's been pointed out before, it's not my campaign.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had better go on a bit longer....

I know darn well that a "lovable and fun" guild is wanted, but I think that banning Griff for a protection scheme is the wrong way to go about getting it.

I think this is a case of every problem looking like a nail because you only have a hammer. I've made a number of suggestions in the League forum to help solve the main underlying problem but I won't repeat them here. I've made others in the public fora.

I think problems causes by thieves can be dealt with in a roleplaying fashion. If that doesn't work, then ban 'em. Maybe I missed the middle part in Griff's case....

I'm not sure how much more time I should spend (or waste) on this topic....

Solving this problem is going to take time and effort. From a few players, the mods, and DMs. I don't expect that to happen (throws gauntlet icon_smile.gif ).

The problem is a bit larger than just the theives guild as well.
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PostThu 03/06/03 5:05pm
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*sighs hopeing that 3.x will bring Dyso, the server, when he first connected on was a fun RP server he hopes that 3.x will fix everything....he fears that it wont*
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Griff, you are a great guy, I like you alot, and I enjoy playing with you. I hope that you reconsider and come back to Dysotopia later. You add a great deal to the community. I do not doubt getting you unbanned could be done, but you don't seem to want to comeback. icon_sad.gif

As far as the ban, I think the circumstances need to be cleared up a bit. Griff or any of the admins feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here. This "insurance selling" that got Griff banned, along with Hash and Ape (I think), was done by them to willfully and flagrantly break the no-taxing rule, as a sort of protest or act of defiance. "Insurance selling", while a clever idea, is clearly the same as taxing. Whether you demand a tax, and then kill them if they don't pay, or ask if they want to buy "life insurance" and then have a cohort kill them 1 or 2 minutes later if they don't pay... it's the same thing. They hate the no-taxing, no-scamming rule and decided to force the issue. This left the admins no choice but to ban.

Now don't get my wrong. I think good, intelligent rp evil is fun. I've been thinking of making an evil character myself (if I could rp it right, and others could keep ooc and ic separate), and I even talked to Hash about it. But I completely disagree with this method of protest. If you disagree with a rule, let's talk it out with the admins. Intentionally breaking rules you don't like seems like admin griefing to me. Let's give these guys some respect and follow the rules unless you can convince them to change them. They sacrifice alot for the mod.

*Sigh* Griff, I hope you return.... if not, you will be missed.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as roleplaying evil, everyone seems to think they have the answer, but none of us do. It's a complex issue.

Here's my view. This game should be fun for everyone. That includes those people who like to rp evil, those who like to rp the goody goodies that fight evil, and those who don't want to do either. The problem is that players want different experiences out of this game. There is a large contingent who simply want to create the cooperative spirit they remember from PnP D&D. They want to party with friends, go on grand adventures, explore the beautiful realm of Dysotopia, and develop their character. They don't want to be constantly attacked by other players, disarmed, pped, scammed, taxed, tolled, pked, or even sold insurance upon threat of death. Many players of evil characters seem to look down on these people as terrible role players, and say they should leave the server since "they won't role play". Maybe these people just want a different, more cooperative rp experience than you do.

That being said, many people want to rp evil, and they should be free to do so, especially since there is an abundance of players who enjoy playing along, being the victim, or fighting back, etc. The point is to make this game fun for everyone... all the players types. The admins try to balance all these issues, but it's impossible to make everyone happy. I certainly don't have the answer, other than for players to be considerate towards one another so that everyone enjoys the time they spend in Dysotopia.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

As far as roleplaying evil, everyone seems to think they have the answer, but none of us do. It's a complex issue.

Here's my view. This game should be fun for everyone. That includes those people who like to rp evil, those who like to rp the goody goodies that fight evil, and those who don't want to do either. The problem is that players want different experiences out of this game. There is a large contingent who simply want to create the cooperative spirit they remember from PnP D&D. They want to party with friends, go on grand adventures, explore the beautiful realm of Dysotopia, and develop their character. They don't want to be constantly attacked by other players, disarmed, pped, scammed, taxed, tolled, pked, or even sold insurance upon threat of death. Many players of evil characters seem to look down on these people as terrible role players, and say they should leave the server since "they won't role play". Maybe these people just want a different, more cooperative rp experience than you do.

That being said, many people want to rp evil, and they should be free to do so, especially since there is an abundance of players who enjoy playing along, being the victim, or fighting back, etc. The point is to make this game fun for everyone... all the players types. The admins try to balance all these issues, but it's impossible to make everyone happy. I certainly don't have the answer, other than for players to be considerate towards one another so that everyone enjoys the time they spend in Dysotopia.
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Well said, i agree with every word you said !
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well now that evil players are dropping like flies, lets make the bible come with the EULA as required reading upon your first logon, I figure it fits the theme. I understand that griff pushed the rules and I understand that the rules are there for a reason but this just isn't right at all. We all say we sympathize with him and that we feel bad for what he's going through and some disagree with him completely I'm sure...but lets step back and look at what's goin on here...

Red is gone now, Griff is gone, I've had my run ins with them in the past but have they really ever done anything to ruin someone's game experience? Maybe one or two brand spanking new players fell for their scams and left because of it and maybe they've had loads of complaints on their heads but thats no reason to have banned them. I've been pissed at them before for stealing from me, when I was playing my half orc I actually got pretty ooc pissed at red and falkhor for pp and basically kicking my ass one time heh, but i got over it. Dyso is a game like every other game and I understand people don't like bad things happening to them but people don't take screenshots when they lose 500 gold and some xp to a monster that killed them and complain on the forums. Red and Griff have actually used their brains and tried to rp being evil and with so little leeway to do so what did you expect to happen? I don't want anyone's game experience to be ruined, sure, but these guys aren't even close to doing that!! I mean, if this really were an rp server with a mature playerbase then people should be able to get over stupid little crap like losing some money to scams and being pped and genrally having bad things happen to you IN A GAME. I really am truly sorry griff and I wanna apoligize to you and red for anytime I badmouthed you guys or what you were trying to do. I really thought you were lamers but my mind has deffinitely changed since then.

Bri, I seriously suggest reforming th scam and taxing rules to accommodate evil better, part of realworld rp is having assholes and scams and reds and griffs are pretty lighthearted if you think of all the game exploits and cheap tricks possible. I don't want to be the guy saying "Thsi is the way it is...sorry to see you go...hope you come back...blah blah blah" because there's no point to it. Griff is right about this and while I respect the control of the mod creators to be able to make rules and decide their players fates, the past few bans really haven't warranted anywhere near such severity and while taxing frustrations can be a problem a case by case system is really needed for this stuff and people who are willign to enforce it.

DOn't destroy what little evil rp is left and turn dyso into goodie goodie hour, the way things are looking I'm gonna hafta retire Brant and punch out a new evil char just to try and offset the huge alliance against evil it seems. I'm just one voice and I doubt that my one opinion can shape much but time is taking its toll on these rules and some of the best people are starting to fade away. Stop and think about the players, the rules, and how this all affects the actual game because I think things need to change and so do many others obviously. I don't want to see dyso die I don't hate anyone here for any reason, and I don't especially resent all the effort which Gesh and Bri have taken from their own lives to give to us on this mod. I appreciate them tons for what they've done, but it still strikes a sour note when I see someone like griff go and I want to see things made fair for everyone and for REAL rp to get started. I barely even try anymore because Griff was right about his first option, dyso isn't rp anymore, the few glimpses I have of it are, or rather were, usually with people like red and griff who are now banned becaue rping with an enemy is always beter than with a friend. I don't know if you read all of my post or even stopped to look it over but please gesh and bri, and all the mods, just stop for a few moments and think about what is really going on because like OGT said, evil is dying out. I want to have a challenge, excitement, scammers to fight, and MATURE rpers who can handle taking a loss now and again, not whiners and kiddies who are just jerking around trying to get to level 20 to be "uber". I'm gonna shut up now but just take griff seriously and think about whats going on.

Scorp out
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah. Protection as life insurance, which does translate to tax or die. That tactic has been way too overused.

Protection can be many things. You might have the freedom to sell your wares in the market without too many five-fingered discounts. Competitors who unfairly bad-mouth your wares might start having problems of their own. Marketplaces can be rather busy at times, protection can mean what's yours stays in your pocket. Protection can be bought for any area in which the thieve's guild is involved. Having problems keeping law and order? Protesters bothering you? Grease some palms....

A small sum periodically can pay big dividends, both parties go happy. Some characters can choose not to pay, and might (or might not) suffer a loss slightly greater than the original fee. Other characters will pay and go on their merry way.

A third faction will choose to get further involved in shady dealings of some sort and get into bigger trouble. That translates into bigger protection fees. If a character starts causing problems for the guild which cost a certain amount, the character is going to be asked for a fee to cover cost of trouble and some profit to boot. If the cost is big enough, "life insurance" is a valid step in the vicious cycle of character self-destruction.

It's based on roleplay. Dyso could work this way if the choice was made.

I'm not defending Griff here. I suspect his case wasn't as I described. I know it wasn't what I consider to be an official League act as it wasn't discussed in the League forum. Perhaps he deserved both game banning and forum banning, that's not for me to decide. Of course, there's nothing I've read in the Dyso forums that would help me to decide, but I've griped about one-sided justice here before. There's no need to go there again.

DMs, coders, mods, and sysadmins can not edict roleplay. It's not well liked in general, it's not well liked here, and I contend it can not work and still provide a fun experience for roleplayers of all mindsets. Sure, other servers may try it but as Conrad pointed out it's not a lot of fun for all kinds of players.

If someone wants to stand up and say "fine, Dyso no longer wants evil roleplay in any of its forms under punishment of banning" then do so. If not, then those same someones need to start figuring out a way to address these problems.

Which is a heck of a lot of work. I have suggestions and would be willing to help, but I'm not going to mouth off here and suffer the "hey this is long, I'll just scroll past it and hit the 'post reply' button" syndrome.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well well well, I had not thought I would get so much overwhelming support on this. All the players seem to agree with me, and only the admins and mods are making excuses for Bri, which was easily foreseeable. I would like to say how pleased I am that so many have supported me. Thanks for that! cool.gif

Muric, nothing would please me more than to play on dyso again. However there are two minor factors:

1. I’m banned (well duh! icon_biggrin.gif ).
2. I can’t do anything evil without getting banned icon_sad.gif .

If those two factors were removed I’d come straight back, however I doubt either of them will be.

Conrad, you seem to think “caving in” is the most degrading and worst thing you can possibly do in your life. I make a shitload of mistakes every day, but I always say sorry and try to put it straight if at all possible. Like when Glorin gets mad at me and I say “Sorry, I can’t help being British”, and then he forgives me. In other words, I’m not afraid to admit when I’m wrong. Bri is wrong here, and the immense amount of support I’m getting proves it. Is it so hard to just put something back that shouldn’t have been removed in the first place? People that can admit when they’re wrong or “cave in” will get more respect from me than if they were too stubborn to swallow their pride and refuse to admit that they were wrong. And people who I respect have far more “authority” over me.

Solo Core, you said at the end of the day I shouldn’t have broke the rules and it’s my own fault and that there were “other ways to get your point across”. Did you even read Hash’s “Dysotopia exposed” post at all? There you will find several complaints from me and others to get evil roleplay back into dyso. But Bri being as stubborn as he is decided to ignore us. So what do I do then? Let it slide and watch another lame rule establish itself on this server? Or do I make one final stand, knowing that I’d get banned for it? Usually I’d just let it slide, but not this time. Call it stupid, or whatever you want. But when something’s just a plain bad idea I’m willing to voice my opinion against it, and if that fails I’d even get banned for the cause. At the end of the day you can say “well it’s Griff’s fault, he knew full-well that breaking rules would get himself a ban”. And yes I did know full-well I’d be banned. But if I can’t roleplay my alignment on a goddamn roleplay server, what the hell is the point in playing there?

I wasn’t going to reply to any of the posts, but with the amount of backing I’ve had from all of the others players, I felt the need to do so. Once again I say thank you for the support. I love you guys. Perhaps there is still hope of me coming back….. who knows? icon_wink.gif

Griff

(Posting stuff is getting extremely difficult now I’m getting “you have been banned from this forum” messages half the time I attempt to click on something. How I deserved this I’ll never know).
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't recall any instance when scamming was taking out of hand,
i can only remember a few scams and they were only pulled by certain people


1. The infamous House Scam- invented by Red Hashmeer
2. The Boat Scam- started by Sitfu Li (AKA Don Juan)
3. Hashmeer Industries Tournaments- started by Red Hashmeer
4. Peladno's roullette wheel- started by Griff
5. Bank Fraud- Red Hashmeer
6. Tia's Secrets- Tiarella, BP, Hash


6 Scams pulled by 6 people, Griff, Sirron, Red, and Don Juan.
Scamming apparently got out of hand when Hash sold about 3 houses on his return as Hashmimbo Rosavinni.

Although i disagree with the no-scamming and no-taxing and no-evil laws. I hold no grudge against Bri, I think bri was pushed into a corner by newbies and yes he did cave then. Hashmeer's radical anger following the event pretty much set the Rule in Stone now.
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PostThu 03/06/03 8:48pm
So... what does Bri and Gesh have to say about all this? Havne' t seen their replies or reasons yet...  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me say something about this. Bri is right.

Indeed, I too think that their law may have been flawed. BUT you shouldn't have broken the rules..
They may have overreacted, but it was needed to show that their words MEAN something. Otherwise, they WILL get run over(mainly by hashmeer). Really, you should think about what happens when the man in charge gives an order, and that order is not obeyed. The people who did it get punished. That is exactly what happened to you, Griff. Exactly what happened to you.
You see, if you had waited, you may have gotten a compromise, but now that you decided to go against the rules, it is logical that you got banned. Be assured that we don't agree with it. But there is also little we can do.
Wait, and things will change. Revolution is usually not a good way to do things, slow change IS.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've read everything you posted Griff, none of the replies though...
Regardless of what was said:
YOU ARE MY IDOL!! emot-yum.gif

Sure, I may have betrayed you and the LoS, but you made me aspire to get that 80+ unlock skill to break out of the Ele jail (impossible now, but I did manage to do that back when it WAS possible). Anyone who inspires someone to create a character from scratch, and give that character a goal to attain in life is someone that actually means something to this community. Heck, I don't even know what I'm trying to say by this myself.. But Griff, man, I'll miss you icon_sad.gif
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Havne' t seen their replies or reasons yet...

We never do
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