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Half-way serious new item suggestion
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Selenia_Genoell
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2003 2:28 pm    Post subject: Half-way serious new item suggestion Reply with quote

[Tongue in cheek]

New weapon suggestion to combat the people who only take True Neutral in order to bypass all the alignment based spells (ie; powergaming even their alightment).

Bringer of Chaos and Law

Morning Star
Attack Bonus +2
Cast Spell: Divine Power (7) 1 Use/Day
Damage Bonus vs. Specific Alignment: True Neutral 1d10 Damage Bludgeoning
Damage Bonus vs. Specific Alignment: True Neutral 1d10 Damage Piercing
Damage Bonus vs. Specific Alignment: True Neutral 1d10 Damage Slashing
Damage Bonus vs. Specific Alignment: True Neutral 2d6 Damage Sonic
Enhancement Bonus vs. Specific Alignment: True Neutral +5
Extra Melee Damage Type: Piercing
Extra Melee Damage Type: Slashing
Skill Bonus: Discipline +10
Use Limitation: Specific Alignment: Chaotic Evil
Use Limitation: Specific Alignment: Chaotic Good
Use Limitation: Specific Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Use Limitation: Specific Alignment: Lawful Evil
Use Limitation: Specific Alignment: Lawful Good
Use Limitation: Specific Alignment: Lawful Neutral
Use Limitation: Specific Alignment: Neutral Good
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Maelstrom696969
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Half-way serious response:
No.

Serious response: To overbalanced. And Chaos and Law wouldn't work together to bring whup*ss to Neutral. You got a thing against someone, or just animals in general?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2003 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha, I love how people with absolutely no authority speak as though they have some. (true neutral perhaps?)

Personally, I like this idea with maybe some tweaking... The item does seem awfully powerfull, how does it compare to similar items against good, evil, law, or chaos?

As far as law and chaos working together, bah! Who can explain the mystical ways of magic fully? Law and chaos wouldn't need to work together, maybe only chaos made this item and as a consequence anyone can use it.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2003 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sounded like I have authority? Wow, I didn't know I was doing that. Maybe it's just that the Force has power over the weak-minded.
Anyways, whaleboy, like you yourself said, it is too powerful. True, the idea in and of itself is not a bad one, but it needs about 75% of the abilities removed, at least.
And if you had an inkling of how Law, Neutrality, and Chaos work in the D&D universe, you might understand why Law and Chaos do not fight against Neutrality. I like your idea of making it simply a tool of Chaos, but still.....
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2003 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah this is a mighty absurd weapon, there is nothing close to similar that I've seen against any other alignment. I mean a crit hit with this could easily do over 100 points of damage! That is absurd. By easily, I'm talking about somebody with a 6 Str can still have a 100pt crit with it. Tone it down a bunch and maybe it'd be cool, but holy cow this thing is unbelievable.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2003 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That item, as it is outlined, is totally overpowered xompared to anything currently in the module and that includes many of the items that you never ever see in use in game (like those Forgotten Longswords and such).

I agree with the premise behind it ... but not with the construction itself. Also keep in mind ... True Neutral also cannot use some items which are good-only and/or evil-only (or lawful-only or chaos-only). There ARE tradeoffs in being true N.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can PG your alinment!! icon_eek.gif icon_eek.gif
People are crazy!!
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

umm.. this is a level 19 weapon... even if it was IN the mod... good luck getting to that level cool.gif

but, yes, this is similar to a AK (alignment Killer) weapon that was oh-so common in LV... so let's not, eh?
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Matthijs says:
   het ziet er toch wel een beetje naar uit dat we nederlands praten
Matthijs says:
   mischien moet ik dan maar eens vaker nederlands gaan praten
Matthijs says:
   kan je me ook meteen niet op al mijn spellinsfouten wijzen
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Selenia_Genoell
PostFri 04/04/03 2:37am
It was ment more to be funny then as a real suggestion.  Reply with quote
 
Shin2k
PostFri 04/04/03 5:29am
What does true neutral do with your spells?? Except that, you get different summons from planar binding  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

protection from law, protection from chaos, (both of which dont exist thanks to bioware), protection from evil, protection from good, - thier magic circle and aura variants.

None of them touch a neutral character, such as froja, who I believe is the accused here.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL like that.... Oh well I got a lot of neutral characters, because of IC reasons, didnt know that this also affected it... ah well I should go powergame abit... then kill everyone and be happy *pout*
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2003 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you were playing pen and paper, the +s are even greater. You can cast all four of the alignment based type spells (chaos/good/evil/law), choose between turning and rebuking the undead (at character creation).

Its really not all that big a thing though, its negated by the dm monitering you for alignment drift. Its really hard (for some people) to play true neutral.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2003 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what lvl requirement is it? if its 20 u prolly wont be able to use it till another year or so.

isn't froja, selenia's arch enemy, true neutral?
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Selenia_Genoell
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2003 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this amusing idea was spawned over a talk between some people about Power gamers even taking their Alignment for non RP reasons.

Yes Froja is TN and yes everyone but Froja knows the only reason is so she can avoid all those alignment based spells, weapons, and effects.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2003 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Malakalam wrote:
protection from law, protection from chaos, (both of which dont exist thanks to bioware), protection from evil, protection from good, - thier magic circle and aura variants.

None of them touch a neutral character, such as froja, who I believe is the accused here.


im not sure, we could try it in the arena and see the rolls, but i think the auras work the same with any alingnment
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2003 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I totally agree with the idea. True Neutral is the powergamer's alignment as there's no weaps or spells that protect against or damage them. So having a sword that specifically damages true neutrals is a brilliant idea. Weap is way too powerful though. How about:

Enhancement Bonus vs True Neutral: +4
Damage Bonus vs True Neutral: 2d6 whatever
Keen

Level required: 10

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2003 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have herd a few comments that you might wish to concider. Monks and Socerer's seem to have few choices on equipment. I only play Grok so I am unaware of their specific needs, but perhaps gloves, boots and clothing.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2003 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah really... uber macho powergamer-aholic...

So... how about we fly back to reality, shall we?

That weapon should never exist ANYWHERE. Waaaaaaaaaaay too good.

*thinks a moment*

icon_lol.gif not only that but Gesh wouldn't let it in even if you paid him a good sum of money because that would be his Dragoon SLAYER. (To be a dragoon you have to be true neutral). So don't get your hopes up.

And what Grok mentioned about monks/sorcerers... I think that there should be more things that give bonus spell slots, not just for socerers though, but for all magic classes. And for monks..... well I can't say much as I have never played a monk... but a much wider set of gloves would be nice!
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2003 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FoxBoyTails wrote:

That weapon should never exist ANYWHERE. Waaaaaaaaaaay too good.


Ummm, no. There would more than likely be a cult that think true neutrality is unnatural, and that it should be rebuked at all costs. There are similar weapons against elementals and outsiders.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2003 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I can see very religious Paladins being like this. Something along the lines of its evil to be a sinner, but even worse to stand back and do nothing when you have a chance to do good / oppose evil. I think there is a line allong these lines in Dante's "Divine Comedies", where a special place is reserved in hell for those who stand back and dont take sides.

Anyway Im rambling.. come back, Dyso, come back...

Az.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2003 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, I can see your point Uin, but thats OMG way too good. Maybe if it was 1d6 damage instead of 1d10's, and no sonic damage, or 1d6 sonic damage, ior make it an absolutely ordinary weapon for everything BUT neutrals, it MIGHT be acceptable... but really.. thats just sick.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay now a real need to have Item :

The Wand/Staff of drinking
unlimited uses a day

description:
If used in areas other than noPVP player gets drunk. If uses in noPVP areas all surrounding Players (range 12m) get drunk too. Per player getting drunk User looses 2gp.

Effects:
if race: dwarf/half orc
regeneration+1 1d12 rounds
int decrease -2 1d12 rounds

if race: halfling/gnome
50% chance of getting dazed for 1d6 rounds
int decrease -2 1d6 rounds

other races
normal alcoholic effects

TextOut(`*BURB*`)




I REALLY NEED THAT ITEM...I am always running low on bewerages...and I guess some cleric I nkow would be happy to have that Item too....

(Lemli)
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has come to my attention that there are no +4/+5 Kukri in Dysotopia. So would it be possible for some to be made? I have some suggestions-

Cut Throat:
Attack bonus +5
Keen
Massive criticals 2d6
1d8 sonic damage

Required Level 18

Silent Death:

Attack bonus +4
1d10 fire damage
Keen
Enhancement bonus vs Humans +3

Required Level 18

These are only suggestions, but i would really like to see some +4/+5 kukris in the near future. icon_lol.gif
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great, I want some +4/+5 short swords, daggers and handaxes! And while we're at it, just bring the Gloth shop back cussing.gif
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...well nothing against Gloth old shops..but we could do better know that we have the database... What about the "I-tell-the-smitty-what-magical-weapon-I-want-and-I-instantly-get-it-shop"
that would be even better for even Gltoh hadn't all the stuff I ever wanted...
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Umm, the reason there was no +5 one handed weps back in 2.x was to try and balance twohanders with shieldies. Back in games like BG, twohanded weps special powers were more powerful than their singlehanded counterparts. In NWN (and some would say 3rded in general) shieldies rule.

Well that seems like a good reason to me, even if it wasn't done because of that.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright, in case you new people don't get it yet:
1) That will be implemented in a tradeskill system, but it will take some time to get it ready and implemented. Give them a break, will ya.

2)Gloth was BAD, Gloth and it's shops were the main reasons people quit Dysotopia, because they made people incredibly powerful. It was lame and boring to see everyone walking around in the same uber-armor and weapons that made them invincible.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, but Dyso needed the Gloth shop in 2.x. Dyso monsters are extremely pimp. Without the items it wasn't worth trying.

The only crippling item from gloth was the Full-Plate. If you looked further down the lists there were great Chainmails for barbarians and druids (of course they all used the full plate, bah! to the fallen barbarians and druids) like the elemental chain (+4 15/- acid fire elec ice) and the Melodic chain with the very rare sonic resistance.

There were great quarterstaves and handaxes, but no-one used them because of bastard swords and greataxes. +5 2d6crit spell breach staff!! It was bloody amazing, but noone used it.

Class designed equipment was all over gloth. Bards and Paladins loved gloth because the standard sets do not cater for them.

Don't bash gloth, bash the boring unimaginative players.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uin makes all the good points I would have made ... but left one out that I will point out ... people got the impression that the gloth shop was 300+ level 20 items. and that simply was not so. The majority, I daresay vast majority, were items level 14-18 in range. The selection of items level 19 was small, and the selection that was 20 was even smaller.

Beyond that, people simply never took much time to look over the lists of stuff, something for everyone, as the phrase goes. Unimaginative players relied too heavily on certain things, and that really killed the variety which was possible. I figure many folks never went beyond the last page or two on most of the item lists, looking only at the most expensive stuff. Some of the neatest stuff was not the most expensive, as Uin said.

Very little of the gloth stuff carries immunitiies, and those few that do really force you to make some hard choices in what you use or is alignment restricted/class restricted. This argument has gone on and on in the past, however, and basically there will always be those who insist on everyone using +1 armor with +1 weapons ... they are usually spell-casters. icon_wink.gif I've heard it all before and I don't know why I replied to this now because it's a dead horse that was decided on long ago. I reply, I guess, to basically clear of some misconceptions that surround the lingering thick-headedness of some.

The "gloth items" are still in the game resources and I use them in treasure loot and other ways in game from time to time. They are now not set up in a way where just anyone can go get them, however, a DM has to put them where they can be found. This was the original point for them in the first place ... the original gloth shop was just a means to an end in getting the stuff into the game. Now the DMs have control of the flow of these things into the game and, I for example, have been limiting that to mainly stuff from the level 14-17 range ... which is lots of items, needless to say. As characters progress in levels, I can scale events up in difficultly and maybe throw out something level 18-20 in a rare drop here or there. This was the point of these things in the first place.
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