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Dysotopia needs to get its XP, and Money system sorted out!
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Should it be made easier for high level chars to level up?
XP should be higher.
25%
 25%  [ 12 ]
There should be an area with higher level monsters for high level chars.
51%
 51%  [ 24 ]
No, its fine the way it is.
23%
 23%  [ 11 ]
Total Votes : 47

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AliC1
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 12:53 pm    Post subject: Dysotopia needs to get its XP, and Money system sorted out! Reply with quote

I've noticed over the last couple of weeks that many people are unhappy with the new XP and Money system. I know some people will think this is just powergaming, but the fact is lots of people want to RP with high level chars, and the only way to do this is to spend weeks on end gaining levels (in the crypts) and this gives no oppertunity for RP. The reason for this poll is to show the DM's that gamers are not happy with the way Dysotopia is being run. I have nothing against the DM's themselves, its just the new slow leveling system.

Many people have quit Dysotopia just because of this one reason, and if it doesnt change soon many others will be leaving aswell.

Please vote so the DM's can see what peoples views are, because at the moment they are just ignoring us.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, I don't. The reason they made it like this, is because you would get 2.x all over again. Which is NOT a good thing. Put it back, and nothing will chage. SO just leave it like it is, leveling up may be hard, but it should be a really rewarding and rare thing to level, not something you otain easily.
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Error247
PostTue 04/15/03 1:05pm
i spent ummm... a week dying and trying to get lvl 3.... yeah.... real fun for me.... i cant do SHIT...  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the xp gaining progress as it is now... and I personally think since the xp isnt given away so easy alot of non RP-ers and Lamers left. Its a lot more fun to play now. For the part that evryone is hanging around in the crypts...well you can RP there too.
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Marine436
PostTue 04/15/03 2:33pm
the only thing i agree on is more high level spots to hunt


but not to change the system
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Cherrn
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People shouldn't want to RP at high lvls only, i think that was the aim of 3.x wasn't it ? Still it hasn't stopped people from lvling anyway. It seems as if people still think they can only RP when they are lvl 15 + or something like that.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is trolling we get a variation on the poll and comments every other week.
Despite trying to repackage the same idea in different paper it still dont fly.The new sysyem is not a problem the XP the money is fine.Trade skills is work in progress so the money sysyem aint perfect but it aint a problem either.lets just lock the thread its been said before and doesnt really need repeating.
You know the answwer is simple If you like it stay if you dont move.At the end of the day the mod belongs to the people who design not the players if they think its fine its their right to ignore anyone and everyone.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cherrn wrote:
People shouldn't want to RP at high lvls only, i think that was the aim of 3.x wasn't it ? Still it hasn't stopped people from lvling anyway. It seems as if people still think they can only RP when they are lvl 15 + or something like that.


Its not always about RP at higher lvls only, people get sick and tired of doing the same shit over and over again, You can't do everything at a low lvl, where's the fun in never leaving Elriina area b/c you get killed all the time?? Just b/c people want more abilities to do things doesn't mean that they are all NON RPer's. While I do admit that some are just lamers, some of us who have been here for a long time would actually like to be able to do more than depend on friends to raise us from death when we party up with them. And I'm sure alot of people get tired of raiseing everyone all the time aswell, having to babysit people isn't part of the fun rp experience.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dont lock the thread. People need to learn there is more to it than Leveling. This is why we need something on the starting boat telling people How and why they should RP.
Error247 wrote:
i spent ummm... a week dying and trying to get lvl 3.... yeah.... real fun for me.... i cant do SHIT...

Well, I dont know what was this guys problem. It took me 1 day on the easter isle to level to 3. If you only find fun in geting Xp then you might as well give up NwN. You find a monster, you click on it, it dies. Woo Hoo its the most exciting thing in the world icon_rolleyes.gif

The money system and XP system are fine. Really people dont tell me you are still seling things to the NPCs for 1 gold. icon_rolleyes.gif I figured out in my first 20 min to sell to sell to players instead. Take something that sells for 1 gold to a NPC, and sell it to someone else for 5 coin. You can even involve some RP in the selling of shiny rings to stupid orcs. If you need gold that bad just walk around asking for it. Someone walked up to me and tried to give me 300k when I first got to the mainland. I didnt exept partly because geting that kind of gold takes the fun out of the game. ((That and the fact that someone giveing away 300k to a stranger is well... icon_eek.gif )) Finding things and selling them to people is part of the fun of interacting.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The new XP system and money system were introduced so suddenly due to complaints of people complaining that Dyso was too much of an "action" server, now people are complaining that its too hard. Go to anphillia and tell me if you still think Dyso is hard, if you don't like it here go to the action room, or deal with it. These changes were made because of Whiners and they aren't about to be reversed for that same reason.
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Conrad Hollows
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually I am one of the ones who thinks that the system isn't exactly right, go figure. icon_smile.gif

Not that I clamor for a return to level 20 in 3 hours, but I don't feel the way it is now is totally what it should be.

I like the death system being as it is, costly with xp and gold ... and the lack of gold itself being an issue as it currently is. I do think the xp scale needs to be tightened up a little at the lower levels and even thru the mid levels and relaxed a bit at the higher levels.

I am not talking of returing to 2.x XP awards, but adjusting from what we are currently using in 3.x. In other words I think levels 1-5 should be a little harder than they are now, level 6-15 harder than they are now, and level 16-20 a bit easier than they are now (which would still be hard, but not as hard). It would slow progression down across the board but make level 20 a more reasonable and attainable goal ... but still with a lot of work since one death would set you back quite a bit.
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AliC1
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with what Conrad is saying. Everyone has to admit that gaining levels from 16-20 takes ages. The fact is people will give up before they reach level 20. Im not saying that the XP system should go back to 2.x., i just think it should be slightly easier to gain high levels. I am glad i have got a DM on my side, so hopefully Conrad can look into it and help change the XP so its still hard to level, but not impossible. icon_lol.gif
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm... at low levels it's easier to level, at least in the D&D papergame.
Besides, there's a little powergamer inside us all. I love to roleplay, but I also liked to see my character grow, without having to play 24/7 as the situation is now icon_wink.gif

Okays... I think I need a smoke
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gold or experience. Either one, and people would be just fine with Dysotopia without having to play peasants when their character is practically godlike and slays dragons for a living; or stop being the nobles that the DM's and moderators say simply is not permitted of players on Dysotopia. Some of us actually have power, but we're poor. Some of us are weak, but have vast wealth that is very material.

"How would this possibly help if we're to maintain a realistic environment?"

That's simple, people want to be rich, and people want to be powerful. We're not all fundamentalists that value growing trees in the middle of nowhere and playing the simple farmer boy. It's a game, we want to be something that we aren't and cannot possibly be in real life.

"If you don't like the server so much, then go to a different one."

Heard that one a few times ... and it disturbs me even more when moderators and Dungeon Masters start saying it. It simply means that they would prefer having nobody on their server except for three or four perfect, satisfied people.

Heh, that didn't flow so hot but gimme a break, it had a good base that got lost over the past month, when people got so strong and rich that I could leech off the strong and at the same time steal from the rich. Then again, both of those are against the rules, so I suppose maybe people aren't meant to become anything more than a mere peasant.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I think level 17 and up should be unattainable except via lots and lots dm rewards for RPing. I'd like to see it be easier to reach midrange levels (8-13), and then rapidly get harder from there. I think the death system is a definate plus, but it needs to be able to remove levels, thus making it even more dangerous for high level players to take large risks like fighting glathers or other players.

The money system is rough, but it's not that bad. Granted, my low characters are running around with no magical equipment except thier armor, shield, and weapon, but is that a bad thing? I don't think so, AS LONG AS EVERYONE ELSE IS POOR TOO. Unfortunately, some people have managed to exploit the system, and are running around with a ton of money.

I still think the biggest problem with 2.x and what we'll see with 3.x later on as people gain more levels, is the complete lack of a justice system. There is no penalty for killing and robbing people except for the possibility of vigilantee justice. We need a justice system, trials, jails, etc.

Cherrn wrote:

People shouldn't want to RP at high lvls only, i think that was the aim of 3.x wasn't it ? Still it hasn't stopped people from lvling anyway. It seems as if people still think they can only RP when they are lvl 15 + or something like that.


I just want my character to be comparable to the people he's RPing with. I can't be haughty and snooty to people who could use me as a toothpick. Unfortunatly, rather than 8-12 being where everyone is, there's a rapidly growing "elite" group of people between 15-18 that have been playing 24/7 that I can't deal with. I simply don't have time to reach that level, I barely have time to reach level 10, and its so boring leveling that I generally don't even want to play. No one around to talk to since they're all out killing stuff, the only time I get any RP is when I send a tell out.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*Whispers in the wind*

SunTzi wrote:
I like the xp gaining progress as it is now... and I personally think since the xp isnt given away so easy alot of non RP-ers and Lamers left. Its a lot more fun to play now. .


SunTzi, actually, a lot off really good roleplayers also left, not just those that you mention. As evidence, the ones I know now mostly hangout out on SOCIAL mods.

Conrad Hollows wrote:

I like the death system being as it is, costly with xp and gold ... and the lack of gold itself being an issue as it currently is. I do think the xp scale needs to be tightened up a little at the lower levels and even thru the mid levels and relaxed a bit at the higher levels.


Conrad, I like your suggestions, but I would not make the low levels harder because I think it's important to be gentle to new players and encourage new talent. Sure, there are people out there who could definitely make it to Level 5 in one session, but there are many who don't know all the tricks (belts, for example). So, I understand that you might want to make it harder for veteran players to advance the earlier levels, but the tradeoff might be to discourage new talent.

Tae icon_razz.gif
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Malakalam wrote:

I still think the biggest problem with 2.x and what we'll see with 3.x later on as people gain more levels, is the complete lack of a justice system. There is no penalty for killing and robbing people except for the possibility of vigilantee justice. We need a justice system, trials, jails, etc.

I've given up on this one Malak, I completely agree with you and I think it'd be fun as hell, but there are about 4 people who are willing to give up that little amount of power and allow their characters become accountable for their actions. It just cannot work without player support, and as we've seen with the high council only a few players will go along with it.

Malakalam wrote:
No one around to talk to since they're all out killing stuff, the only time I get any RP is when I send a tell out.


This is actually finally improving, a little, at least in my opinion. Nei can occcasionally find somebody running around eleriina, and once in a while they'll stop to talk. I thinkthe powerleveling craze is finally comming to an end. I think...
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2003 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I say harder I am not talking about making the low 1-6 levels as hard as the higher levels ... just a bit harder than they are now. They would still be "easy" within the realm of comparison, trust me.

The main difference I have proposed is this ...

currently you get 1-6 with ease, 6-10 fairly easy, 11-15 a bit slower but still doable. 16-18 big drop offs, bust your ass, 19-20 heh!

my proposed change would be making the xp drop off begin earlier but more gradual. It would slow it all down a few steps (more so in the midlevels, less so in the lower levels) but without the total bottoming out at level 17 or so. You'd still be able to get those first 3-5 levels with relative ease, but flying up to level 15 will not be as quick as it is now (not that it is quick, but slower still), but once you got to 15, albeit taking longer, you would still have some decent progression towards 17,18,19, and 20 ... each progressively harder than the one before it, but not as impossible as it is now. One death would still set you way back, but it wouldn't be the demoralizer it is now where a week of progress is lost.

I'm simply trying to look at this from the player-angle as something of a player advocate ... personally it doesn't bother me one way or the other which system we use. It's just that sometimes it's easy to sit back as a DM or whatever and chastise everyone for everything ... but it is a game and people do want to have fun and getting some levels is part of it. Putting in what amounts to a level 15-16 cap for anyone but the most hardcore power-players is discouraging to many otherwise good players.

I am also against capping it so that only DM awards can get players to highter levels. DMs are not always on or around, it's full of too much hit or miss for many players. Sure DMs can and do award XP for good play and roleplay ... but folks who are around when there isn't a DM around should still have a decent chance to progress in levels. Events are something that are hit or miss as is ... but that's unavoidable due to the nature of DMing. Making high levels as co-dependant as events are isn't a step in the right direction.
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Norrec
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2003 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Dyso needs some justice. Give players contral of the jails or something. Peoples Court.
You can RP your char anyway you want reguardless of level. Your level shouldnt change the way your character acts.
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Glorin
PostWed 04/16/03 12:21am
Lets just save Bri the trouble and leave it how it is  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2003 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well here's my $.02

basically this goes towards AliC1 who wrote
"I know some people will think this is just powergaming, but the fact is lots of people want to RP with high level chars"

now my question is, why can you not RP when you are a low level? I have been RPing just fine, and as of right now I am still only lvl 4, and i've seen lower lvl characters do the same. If you can tell me why you cannot RP a low level character, then maybe i will see a reason to change this, until then, I vote to keep things how they are. The money system is more realistic than ever, i.e. the player driven economy. The XP system is fine. You can do the same things at a low level as you can at a high level. It's not as if low leel characters are children or anything.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2003 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cannot succesfully roleplay at a lower level because my character is a Lawful Evil Wizard. I seek to dominate everyone, and to do that I have to look and be better than everyone. If I am not better than everyone, or at least appear to be better than everyone, then a problem arises because people do not flock beneath me to support them when something happens that only I can take care of.

However, since somebody, for some reason, will probably flame at me for simply not roleplaying at a low-leve, or perhaps accuse me of being a power gamer, I would like to note that in the PNP it is considered roleplaying when everybody parties up and goes out to slay monsters and become a higher level.

That is, until somebody decides that they would rather play house and be the population of the city, then the adventuring dwarven fighter is reduced to drinking ale all day and getting in bar fights along with everyone else that wants obtain some kind of power. Modules and moderators need to appeal to a more general crowd, not just that accute bunch of chit-chatters that would rather play dress-up at the inn instead of going out and beating up orcs.

Rugged life for me, thank you. Experience would be very nice, but then again gold makes the world go round. So you can turn the world or make people happy.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yea and DM events you dont always come out on top....sometimes you'll die so many times that tha reward dosnt even match how much you lost.....

and if you really like Rp'in 24/7 with your Character at a low lvl....then hey, you go ahead and do that...but why you gotta try to change everything so everybody else has to too??
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no problems playing my Lawful Evil monk. I find it quite easy to manipulate others and dominate them even though he is lvl 5. I mean if you try and RP your character as a dominant tyrant when you meet someone and they don't go for it because of your lvl, then it is them that are bad RP'ers. If you play your character as a powerful superior being then people, the good RP'ers, should go along since they don't look at your character and sees if he is effortless or not. People using the feature of seeing the opponents lvl and RP with the knowledge that he is effortless or impossible are just bad RP'ers. You wouldn't be able to see that in RL anyway, or in PnP for that matter. I know for sure that I do never give any indication of the NPCs lvls in my campaign when the PCs encounter them. Its for the players to judge for themselves based on the NPC's actions, words or whatnot. Not some nifty tool that tells them that the NPC is da sheet. Once in my campaign the players encountered a lvl 1 Wizard when they themselves were lvl 5-6 or so. They ended up being terrified of that wizard because I RP'ed him as a wicked tyrant who wanted nothing but total obedience from the PCs. They ended up working for him out of fear what he could do to them.

So to end the post. Players adjusting their attitude towards other players according to how the other players lvl checks out with regards to their lvl are shitty RP'ers.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zacsartori wrote:
well here's my $.02

basically this goes towards AliC1 who wrote
"I know some people will think this is just powergaming, but the fact is lots of people want to RP with high level chars"

now my question is, why can you not RP when you are a low level? I have been RPing just fine, and as of right now I am still only lvl 4, and i've seen lower lvl characters do the same. If you can tell me why you cannot RP a low level character, then maybe i will see a reason to change this, until then, I vote to keep things how they are. The money system is more realistic than ever, i.e. the player driven economy. The XP system is fine. You can do the same things at a low level as you can at a high level. It's not as if low leel characters are children or anything.


I agree.

Grusk, why not have your wizard say things like "When I grow in power you will all be the first to be tortured into becomeing my slaves! MUHAHA"
There are ways to RP evil characters like that at low levels. Be creative!
Hehe PM me if you need some tips king.gif
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

whats good or bad RP have to do with it???
if some Character comes up to you talking trash then your gonna put his ass down hard,

and you say that now Cherrrn and Norrec....but your lvl 5 evil monk or wizard is gonna be someones lil biotch one day coz they gonna see past his bluff at how weak he REALLY is...and YES...there is ways to Rp that too.......
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My lvl 5 LE monk does not become someone's bitch. He's far too superior for that to ever happen icon_wink.gif
And it is not a bluff, it's for real, that's how my monk Zufal sees himself. Better than everyone else. I insult people, call them fools, do anything to trap them in a war of words. I make alliances with all the wrong evil people, teach them the true way, the only way. And nope, he hasn't died yet because of it.
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Zufal- Founder of the Obsidian Order in the name of Bane the Ultimate Tyrant- Human Monk

Irekean the Crimson Flame- Paladin in the service of the Flamelord Kossuth- Human Paladin
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Grusk
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Norrec, that's mighty insulting you know. You'll be the first to become my slave after being tortured relentlessly for many a night until the scars are a permenant mental depiction of my dungeon filled with starving people and rotting corpses; all festering with disease as though it were a giant cesspool of the black plague to run amuck again into the world of Toril. Just try not to insult me by asking me to ask you for tips about how to play evil unless you desire a world of pain and torment. Mind you also, I am not beyond torturing those whom you acknowledge as friends when you cling to life by a small thread that I hold so close and dear. icon_twisted.gif

Hm-hm, Cherrn, wheres yer manipulated army since you're so good at manipulation? Are they all level three or something? Besides that, the thing about the evil wizard that was level 1 is a pretty good referance. Ran across something along those lines when we came to an "Orchish Warlord" in the middle of nowhere and low on supplies. Furthermore, do you always dictate bad RP as you are not satisfied with the outcome? Some people just have a knack for nowing when they will win or lose.

AliZee, thank you for flaming them for me.
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AliZee'
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

moreover some people just dont give a fucc.......they'll attack your ass even if your 20 deep and they're all alone...in IRL that is.......and in-game if we RP'in liek its IRL then i dont see why those Characters didnt smack you around and put you on a leash unless of course you did all that stuff in a No pvp zone....

and i wasnt flaming um for you..i was flaming um for me...but im glad to see you agree.......


Last edited by AliZee' on Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:42 am, edited 1 time in total
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Norrec
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who cares? I dont care if my character dies. I RP that he was broght back because he died for a worthy cause or soemthing. This is why I never see myself geting past level 10 or so, I dont fear my character dieing. The funest times I have EVER! had have been when my character died.

Bah by the time I reply my post is 5 post under where I wanted it.
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Last edited by Norrec on Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total
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