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just a little thing...
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Jilessa
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:07 am    Post subject: just a little thing... Reply with quote

If it's possible all paladins should start with something like a sense alignment item seeing alignment is very imporant for them...
It's kinda stupid when a paladin always tags along with a lawful evil someone...

ohh and i also think that you should put better monk items in the game...i feel really sorry for them.If you were to compare teh monk equipment with the fighter equipment you'd see that it's not exactly equally uber items...

Thats what i've got in store this time.. :)thanks
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heh, and if you compare the monk feats to the fighter feats, you'd see that it's not exactly equally uber feats... I think monk equipment is totally fine and good enough as it is.

Now as you say for a detecting thing, yes, I agree that you should be able to detect evil and ONLY evil. Good thought.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want more monk stuff, because I hate those stupid yellowy robes. But we're not talking about that.

IF they were to put it in, they should keep in mind that you can only sense whether there is evil near, not whether THAT person is evil or not(actually, it's veen detect evil intent, meaning that a paladin couldn't even detect an evil person if the evil person was just shopping).
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You do rase a valad rp point, that a paladin shouldn't be with an evil char, and it would be very nice to have some ability (or item) that could give an idea if an evil person was near. Grok for the sake of rp, helped a person who turned out to be evil, but at first he did not know this...and when he did find out he felt very betraied and was quite upset. It led to some good rp, and helped Grok to become a little wiser. icon_confused.gif
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, I love those yellow robes!!! Oh, but we're not talking about that... icon_lol.gif

As a monk I dont need much, but some more monk items would be nice. Dysotopia really lacks monk and bard equipment icon_neutral.gif icon_confused.gif ...
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RedStorm
PostMon 04/21/03 1:53pm
god damn monks are items,i remeber dueling shadowcores monkey,hard,they need nothing! i say take all monk items down!  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monks need more items. They can't even get a kama that does at least 1d6 elemental dammage.

Furthermore multiclass monks are the most affected, since they will never attain the higher level monk abilities, especialy when capping out at level 15-16.

My character is level 15, 5/5/5 ranger/rogue/monk. With the leveling system I will likely never be more than a level 6 monk. I need equipment to balance my character out. If I had truly known how little monk gear was available in the game I would never have made the character I did.

To be honest, I would be happy with what is available if it was in balance with everyone else. So my vote is to add more monk gear OR take more non-monk gear out. icon_eek.gif
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boohoo, I can't get a short sword with 1d6 elemental damage too, my rogue is seriously underpowered! I want that heavy weapons get taken out, cause they unbalance the mod in favour of fighters!
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the answer... Hammers if everybody used hammers everything would be fine. icon_smile.gif I really don't have much of a problem right now, and I think that it'll get way better when the trade skills are implimented. I know I already have a character made specifically for blacksmithing, so whenever that comes around Brynn will get her shortsword I promise icon_smile.gif.
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Aronthal
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dreamin' wrote:
boohoo, I can't get a short sword with 1d6 elemental damage too, my rogue is seriously underpowered! I want that heavy weapons get taken out, cause they unbalance the mod in favour of fighters!


umm shut the hell up ... damn was that a bit harsh .. shut the heck up icon_smile.gif
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look, Aronthal, you are right to say that there aren't enough monk items here, but complaining about balancing isn't the way to go, because the balance is actually quite good. The main problem is that nonks don't have enough DIFFERENT items, I don't care about having leet-items, I care about being unique with my items. I want to have more choice, I want to have more clothes, I want to have more everything!!! But that doesn't necessarily include BETTER items. Thereofre, I agree with dreamin'.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

some of you people are worse then animals... you just tear anything you can apart... why dont you try a thing called CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM or something instead of ripping people apart for what they say.... and yeah theres hardly anything for a monk to look cool in... lol
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could be wrong .. I am just going from memory. I don't think my monk has anything on him that is higher than a lvl 11 ILR .. and I am pretty sure there is plenty for non monks to get that is higher than ILR 11. If my memory is acurate, and I could easily be wrong, then THAT is unbalanced.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I do agree with you, but only to a certain extent. I don't want monks to get as much uber-items as the fighters, because they don't and won't need it. The fact is, that monks aren't supposed to be built around items, they are supposed to be built around stats. ANd unlike fighters, they are VERY good at that. Ofcourse, there need to be some better monk items, but they should NOT be as good as the fighter items, simply because THAT would be unbalanced. A lvl 20 monk can(doesn't need to happen, but CAN) kick a lvl 20 fighters ass, while the monk has max lvl 15 items, and the fighter lvl 20 items. Now, what would happen if you were to make the same type of uber items for monks?? That's right, monks would own on every fiels, mages couldn't touch them, and they'd kick fighters around. We don't want that to happen, because THAT would be unbalanced. Monks are supposed to be good against spellcasters, not against fighters...
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i found a server with no item lvl restrictions and everything is totally balanced to some extent.... but monsters get really uber.... take down people with lvl 61 gear in a few hits... lol
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I have to agree with that. My quandry is that everything you say is true for a pure monk, but does not hold true for a multiclass monk. I am at a loss for suggestions though, becuase I don't know how you can balnce out multi class monks without overpowering pure monks. There must be a way though.

And please anyone that wants to say that this is the penalty that mc monks should suffer, please save your breath. 3rd edition is about multiclassing, there are penalties for doing so, but many of them can be PARTIALY compensated for through items. My character will never have the power that a pure monk has, but I would at least like to make the most rounded mc character I can make.

EDIT - I think one thing may be true .. a pure monk is probably not going to use kamas. But I think it would make sense for a MC monk like Aronthal to use kamas. There are a significant lack of decent kamas inthe game though. Just a thought.
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Jilessa
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well teh thing is.the monk in forinstance pk's will have too hard a time hitting the others char to be any danger...when people have ac over 40 a monk in nwn will have great problems hitting them...the fmg won't be such a problem for a over lvl 16(is it) monk ,but to do dmg you must hit...
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Glorin
PostMon 04/21/03 10:31pm
how come jilessa hasnt been called a powergamer yet? or am i missing something.

Last edited by Glorin on Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alignments, i thought this was accepted, do not exist in RP. Alignment is the way a character acts and selecting that alignment is what puts it in the restrictions for how you want your char to play out. So that you can't go around killing people randomly as a paladin. just not good rp.

A paladin would easily be able to judge whether someone is evil or not simply by the way they act, and if they are stupid enuff or if the evil char is smart enuff, the Evil will go unnoticed. an evil person never considers themself evil, its in the eyes of the masses. Its simply stupid to go around and say "hey, i'm neutral evil. Do you want to buy a house?" or to say "I'm Lawful Good and i will save you from any evil *paladin uses special power* *paladin uses special power* You there!!! Die Evil Fiend!!!" Its simply gets rid of the fun as well as the RP.

As for Monk Items, i think there shuld just be more DM Monk items. I only see a few Monk items for DM rewards and they aren't that great. The items readily available in a store near you are fine, just more DM reward ones would do some good, ask Gab about that icon_wink.gif
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[quote:a89551bc29="AliZee'"]that shits utterly devoid of any meaningless sense...i tottally disagree on tha basis that tha argument you have pressented is full of actual facts and shit, i think based on tha fact that i have no idea of what tha fuck you were talkin gabout i would have to wholoeheartedly proclaim that you are wrong.
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Last edited by Glorin on Tue Apr 22, 2003 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total
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Jilessa
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well there must be a reason why Paladin gets the spell at once in D&D...

And you won't just kil them if you know alittlebit about rp cause a lawful good character tries to avoid slaying..(atleast on Dyso that is)

And Alignment is actually very important for how you treat someone.
cause a lawful evil wizard won't be stupid enough to just say to anyone that:Yeah lets go do some damage to eleriina.If you have the int enough and you rp good you just won't play it like that. So there should be a way to know that evil is present.

And not nessesarily make a sense alignment singularity item just a sense aligment area effect so that you will know that someone in the group is evil.......

It's my oppinon
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yikes! I agree with Glorin who put it very well. weirdlook.gif

Half the fun is rping with anyone I come across. I've accidentally helped people that were acting "good" only to find out later that they weren't. It happens, but that's exactly what I'd do if I got fooled again. Now, partying up with a known evil person, (evil based on their actions and deeds) is another thing.

Marine made Nel "turn evil" by rping it as such, even though technically she was NG (?). It's all about how you want to play the game.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glorin wrote:
Alignments, i thought this was accepted, do not exist in RP.


Well I certainly don't "accept" that alignment doesn't exist in RP. I agree that alignment is not a cookie cutter that you can use to determine someone's every move but someone who has selected "evil" for an alignment should have done so for some RP-related reason. And Paladins (however flawed in NWN) should have detect evil. I usually RP detect evil - which is to say Paladin gives me an ((OOC)) asking whether or not I'm evil and I say "yes" or "no."

It's also worth mentioning that while Paladins want to do the most they can do to defeat evil they are also LAWFUL and aren't going to go around hacking everything with a trace of evil in them to bits just because their spider-sense goes off.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glorin does have a point, but Paladins in NWN do not have many of the abilities they're supposed to. They're supposed to be able to detect teh intentions ect. which would make a person evil so they are nto fooled so easily like that. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that's why it was brought up.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alignment is an expression of the characters world view and their mix of moral and ethical behavior. Characters which are generally ethical but immoral would be LE, generally unethical but moral would be CG, and so on.

They are but some words, but they are important ... I view alignments as an important thing ... you don't pick an alignment for looks, you need to play your character to that alignment or that alignment should be changed. In pencil and paper, if you don't play to your alignment ... it WILL be changed.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i view alinments as the very soul of your char, that's not to say that i am bound to it

for say, nel is CG emot-yum.gif
Now, she say's she supports law, but at the very heart, if she was given the Power to change the world

shed do away with law, and have chaos and good
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Nel prefers an anarchy? icon_twisted.gif More power to her!

Coming from a viewpoint of a Lawful Evil Wizard, I find myself feigning my alignment from time to time to gain the desired effect.

I also find myself trying to gain power over the law by using the laws against the nobles. You know, black mail. Then again, at the same time, if I end up breaking a law I do usually try and compensate so not to make someone with higher authority angry.

(Pointless, but my view on alignments in the short run. Things can become very elaborate as people make them elaborate. Opinions on one thing can be from a Lawful Good standpoint, although the person is Chaotic Neutral.)

Lawful Good = "The Ass Kisser for Good Outcome."
Neutral Good = "No Ass Kissing Required, 'I'm Exempt.'"
Chaotic Good = "Excuse For Killing That Suspicous Halfing"
Lawful Neutral = "One Who's Ass Is Kissed."
True Neutral = "As Long As Balance Is Maintained And Things Are Fair."
Chaotic Neutral = "Since When Did You Exist?"
Lawful Evil = "The Ass Kisser for Evil Outcome."
Neutral Evil = "Penny For The Poor?"
Chaotic Evil = "YOU are telling ME what to do!?"
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

again, Dyso is not D&D and remember when people sit down to play D&D all of those people are under constant observance by a DM and sit there for the purpose of roleplaying, unlike some people who just exploit their alignment to justify obviously wrong things.

What i mean by this is that although in D&D Paladins have Detect Evil, that does not mean they should have it in NWN....Did anyone ever consider thinking that Bioware actually thought about things before implementing them? Detect Evil could be exploited in many ways, You see CE people running around mass pking and saying its allright because they are CE. The same thing will happen if this Detect Evil is brought inm i believe. those lamers who were CE will see a new oppurtunity to PK with Reason and will become Paladins.

Conrad said something previously about how not every player can deal with things and rp with them, that most of the people did not come from a D&D background, but instead from a Diablo 2 like one. People will just use this detect evil ability as an excuse to pk "oh im a paladin and using my evil ability i saw that he was evil so i killed him, thats good rp!!" It doesn't matter how many Good Paladin Rpers there are, there will be people that do this, and u know it. not to mention that Paladin is one of the best powergamed classes to multi class to, inorder to get uber saving throws.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2003 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

IF they were to put it in, they should keep in mind that you can only sense whether there is evil near, not whether THAT person is evil or not(actually, it's veen detect evil intent, meaning that a paladin couldn't even detect an evil person if the evil person was just shopping).

Actually Shadow Core, by spell description, you CAN detect exactly who its coming from, provided you can see them. And I quote directly from the book:

"3rd round: The strength and location of each aura. If an aura is outside your line of sight, then you discern its direction but not its exact location."

So by technicallity with the rules, you COULD tell if someone was evil, not just the presence. You would just have to spend more time with it. icon_mrgreen.gif
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2003 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glorin wrote:

As for Monk Items, i think there shuld just be more DM Monk items. I only see a few Monk items for DM rewards and they aren't that great. The items readily available in a store near you are fine, just more DM reward ones would do some good, ask Gabout that icon_wink.gif


Just to get this thread back onto the important part (just kidding icon_razz.gif ). I think that is a great suggestion .. I am more than willing to work for my gear .. as long as it is actualy doable I would happily undertake any quest.

Who's Gabout?
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PostTue 04/22/03 1:16am
Gabout is a typo of "Gabriel about."  Reply with quote
 
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