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Theres rules for players and rules for DM's..

 
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Nemor
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 12:04 pm    Post subject: Theres rules for players and rules for DM's.. Reply with quote

Ok, first of all, this post will get me banned and hated but I really don't care after that performance.

I PP Falkhor, it fails fair enough. I'm level 7 and he's around level 11 I beleive. So, he notices and doesn't do anything until I'm in Path to Kravenwood fighting a Troll where he comes up behind me and stabs me a few times, I ran for my friends who were in the area then we took him down.

I said to myself "Sure it can be roleplay but its still a little against rules to attack lesser levels..." So I contact him (not knowing hes a DM at this point, silly me) and said he's against rules and that DM's won't like it.

Reply: "I am a DM you moron"

Hmmm... Anger management course maybe? HOW ABOUT SOME DRUGS TO CONTROL YOUR TEMPER?!?!

Anyway, another DM comes on asks whats going on, so I tell him/her and try to get on with it. Then that DM tells me to shut up, this is also very rude. So I continue what I'm doing and tell my friends to drop the subject as it's boring me, then I get jailed.

I sighed, said to my friends I'm going to get myself a cup of tea before I'm let loose. Guess what? You'd think it was over wouldn't you? WOULDN'T YOU? NO!!!!

I get back and I'm booted/banned... So nice job on successfully upholding your rules DM, I appreciate your effort and thanks for the time you've let me spend here.

- Nemor / Black Shadow
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Spears
PostSun 05/18/03 12:11pm
This is not a good thing. Its been happening one too many time =/  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just because your a lower lvl doesn't mean you should get away with everything. He gave you a few stabs in the back, you weren't dead, I see nothing wrong. Your lucky Falk is a laid back char, any half-orc barbarian would have had your head cleaved.
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Nemor
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uin, he was out to kill me!! We coulda sorted it, he coulda battled me another day, then he had the ordasity to blame me for the whole thing! I was playing my character, it doesn't make him right to call me a moron then threaten to kill me especially when you're supposed to forget the events beforehand when you die!

It's not right, if that was me attacking him at a lower level i'd be punished.
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You started it! Goddamn, you tried to steal from him! He has every right in the world to kill you. Doesn't matter if you're low-level, if you started it you have to count on the risk of getting killed.
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He was stabbed a few times, and he wasn't dead, WHICH IS WHY he was able to gang up and kill the attacker. If he WAS, then he wouldn't be able to do much, now would he?

And what's up with DMs calling others "morons"? WTF?
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kindo wrote:
You started it! Goddamn, you tried to steal from him! He has every right in the world to kill you. Doesn't matter if you're low-level, if you started it you have to count on the risk of getting killed.


I agree with Kindo, IF AND ONLY IF, he made his spot check. Otherwise he would have had no clue IC that he was being stolen from.
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Nemor
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"1. Before just killing someone, examine them. If someone is coming up as being effortless or easy to you, let them walk. If you need to RP it from an evil view -- "Bah, weakling, you ain't worth my time ... get outta my face." If they attack you first, taunt you, try to cast a spell on you, or otherwise do something in a hostile physical sense to you, well then you can defend yourself. We don't buy into the "I'm a lowbie so you can't kill me" defense. Outside of that, however, we do not condone killing and griefing of low level characters who were just walking around generally minding their own business. This prohibition is universal and in effect in all areas other than The Pit and the El North arena."

"9. Conversely with #8, if you've killed someone, you got them ... it's over. Unless there is some very good reason (which had better be pretty damn plain as day as well as explainable) to go after the recently rezzed/respawned, don't do it. As was already said, you got them ... it's over, leave it at that. If they are being decent and following these rules themselves, they will not be back looking for more this day anyhow. Hostility may bubble up a day or so later with some other incident, and you can maybe get them then ... but allow these incidents to be more self-contained rather than one always leading to another every hour or so.
"

- I tried to leave it after that..


- Just for the record Kindo, I have nothing against DM's, they do a good job until it comes to conflict and rules.

My point isn't about him trying to kill me, it's the remarks and way I was treated about the whole ordeal, to sum it up I was banned because we killed him..
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Last edited by Nemor on Sun May 18, 2003 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total
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Raven
PostSun 05/18/03 12:32pm
Aha, the whole story wasn't told.  Reply with quote
 
Raven
PostSun 05/18/03 12:34pm
Well looks like the DM is angry OOC for something that's happened IC. I mean, come on, childish name calling?  Reply with quote
 
Nemor
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeh, that's what pisses me off, almost as much as being jailed and banned for the whole ordeal.

I've seen power hungry DM's in the past, but I thought Dyso was anything but that. Guess I was wrong.

I'm converting the screenshots as we speak so I can prove I was called a "moron"..

mo·ron ( P ) Pronunciation Key (môrn, mr-)
n.
A stupid person; a dolt.
Psychology. A person of mild mental retardation having a mental age of from 7 to 12 years and generally having communication and social skills enabling some degree of academic or vocational education. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive.


Do I really look stupid? Or am I 7 to 12 years old? No... I'm 18 and have a very high IQ thanks icon_twisted.gif
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And Falkhor, I wanted this to drop until I was banned so I have one question for you..

After saying once you respawn a death or a kill should not result in you respawning and coming back for more. So why did you respawn and make your way back there just to try and kill Uda who helped me?

I don't mean to bitch and whine, but I am seriously pissed off with this, and would like to know why I was banned for just saving myself icon_cry.gif
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I honestly don't see a problem, save the insult. Falkhor has been known to have several emotional outbursts- he just did in the guilds forum (to me, and much worse), but I kindly told him that it was just a slight mix up, and all was forgotten. Forgive and forget, moron isn't even such a big thing. If he called you a cuntrag dickwad who couldn't get laid by a cockroach if you had a billion dollars, then perhaps you have a case- but cmon, moron? Thats a little light (in my humble opinion) to actually take it to the boards.

Perhaps you two should actually talk about it ooc and get it out of the way. Its not worth being banned over a small thing Nemor; but thats my opinion.

I would be insulted too, frankly- but hey... lets just put this aside and kick some troll ass. icon_smile.gif

To the DM's, I understand where you guys are coming from- you guys do have a difficult job. But may I request you be a little 'calmer' when handling situations? If you have OOC problems, then please don't mention to others that you're a DM- because that simply implies that 'I can ban you if I want, back off'.. thats unrealistic and unfair for those who really have a case (im not saying thats the case here, but for future encounters perhaps)

On a side note, wasn't Falkhor the master of thieves? Hes probably stabbing you saying "you idiot, you're doing it all wrong". Ever think of it that way? icon_wink.gif You WERE caught red handed, so hes pounding sense into you emot-heartbeat.gif
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me being attacked isn't the point! I'm being punished for him being against his own rules!

I was going to let it drop until being jailed and then banned but now it's started, they can state their defense and people will know what some of the DM's are really like..

As for him being the master of thieves, yeh he is, but I didn't know that. My mistake, that doesn't give him or anyone the right to insult me, being a DM he should know better and can't excuse the fact he did this..

But respawning to come back and fight again and calling me names in OOC and also another DM to back him up, it's outrageous. Others may stand for it but I won't I'm afraid.

After we killed him I let it be and me and my friends tried to continue but couldn't because Uda was again attacked. I stoody by helplessly watching saying "Should I attack or am I going to be banned?" Bah, too late..
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

icon_biggrin.gif . In retrospect silly person would have sounded friendlier. It just doesnt have the same...punch though.
But in truth you stole from me, I spotted you. Being a level 11 rogue I have a fairly good spotting you know... in contrast to your level 7 pickpocketing. I simply detected you. It didnt say lost item, wasnt that i just saw you bump into me.
You were simply spotted. Now the whole issue of you being lowerlevel has nothing to do with it because you chose to rob me. That's fine, that's a risk you take but getting spotted doing it gets you killed if you run into an asshole like Falkhor.
The guy is evil, he leads the Thieves Guild and he hates freelance rogues. He is not one to talk to a person who does that to him. He will sneak up and stab you in the back like he was trained to do. And yet when i finally had you down and was stunned by the stinking cloud i said stop running and we'll talk. And your brother wouldnt stop fighting so naturally after the cloud effect wore off temporarily i resumed fighting the guy who was hacking at me with his big sword. In light of the background what did you expect when you kicked off the whole incident pickpocketing a mobsterboss?
So the number one rule more makes my point than yours.
The number nine rule...hmm well I was raised you know. Didn't respawn. Meaning the whole memory loss clause (!?) doesnt count. I got killed by someone who I spotted robbing from me, then got raised still knowing what occurred.
So naturally being an evil twisted little man i went back after you. Had I returned after respawning I'd agree with you but such was not the case.
Now as to what happened with the other dm after you chased me off kravenwood path when i attacked the second time I dont know.
As for the jailing and banning, that wasnt me, i was at that time waiting for you with a bunch of traps, but as i understand it you were pushing the issue with another dm and got into trouble over that.
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your baned now Nemor?

If so then thats not good. So, he noticed the PP and just stood there? I dont see anything there that would get you baned.
You PP him, Fail, He sees you, Attacks you fighting a troll, you run, group kills him, and then you say send him a tell saying that is against the rules and DMs dont like it? What was against the rules? You won the battle in the end so why complain?
I think you made him mad saying he broke the rules as a DM...... MAkeing a DM mad shouldnt get you baned... Dont tell me Dyso is becomeing City of Arabel?! Eyecrazy.gif
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, I ignored the other DM because I wanted it over with.

And if you were raised, why when Uda was attacking you when I asked "Should I attack or will that get me banned?" Didn't you say, you're within rights or saving your own hide?

And again, THIS ISN'T MY POINT, I don't mind being killed for it.. But being jailed then banned is a little extreme!
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bah Norrec, I did everything according to rules as I see it, I'm an evil character and even I didn't bother keeping it going coz I knew it would inflame, and it did even when I tried to leave it... It's shit being a player now-a-days, DM's have all the power and peons have to deal with it.
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

No, I ignored the other DM because I wanted it over with.


That might be what got you booted. Y cannot ban, he can boot and jail, only Conrad, Bri, Gorbguy and I can ban and as far as I know you weren't.
But ignoring a DM when he tries to get a grip on a situation isnt very smart...

Quote:

And if you were raised, why when Uda was attacking you when I asked "Should I attack or will that get me banned?" Didn't you say, you're within rights or saving your own hide?

Being hacked at by three characters left me little room to type in: "you're within rights or saving your own hide"....


Quote:
And again, THIS ISN'T MY POINT, I don't mind being killed for it.. But being jailed then banned is a little extreme!

Jailed and booted I'm sure, and probably for the ignoring bit.
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I saw you stunned so you had plenty of time and you were only being hacked by Uda emot-yum.gif

As for ignoring the DM, I don't care, I told everyone I wanted it dropped and if that DM ignored me too then thats not my fault or my problem.
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was it just a 10 minute ban or permanent? If it's permanent I think it's a little harsh. But then I don't know the full story. Who is this mysterious DM that you spoke to after the incident?

Anyway, I have to say that what's gone on here is pretty legimate. Nemor attempted to steal from the leader of a rogues guild (you really do pick your targets well), got caught and was attacked for it. I find it laughable that you thought you could steal from whoever you liked and get away with it when you're caught because you're lower level. Hopefully now though you realise that if you provoke someone, no matter what the level difference is, they have the right to take action against you. Conrad's rules pretty much emphasise that.

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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

As for ignoring the DM, I don't care, I told everyone I wanted it dropped and if that DM ignored me too then thats not my fault or my problem.


Why not stop whining then...?
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So know Nemor isint baned? Where did Uda come in?

Nemor, I wanted to know what rule you broke, wasent saying you broke any...
Im going in to play now. Get un-baned soon icon_smile.gif
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ola!

Well i ran in a bit later and was partied together with Falk all the time during the incident.
As far as ive seen and heard it it wasnt a big deal and imsure you have only been kicked for ignoring Y who wanted to handle it.

Anyways im pretty sure you arent permanently banned.

Next time simply dont ignore dms.

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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bah, how many times do I have to emphasise this? It's not about being attacked, we took him down so he made as big a mistake as I.

The point was I was jailed and banned, I told everyone I wanted it to drop and it didn't and I got banned for doing so.
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like it was said before not likely you got banned, just booted for ten minutes for ignoring the other dm. Far as I'm concerned all that happened between us was all IC and just an ignorant action on your part. You would have gotten away with it had you chosen your victim more wisely. But I'm the one who got killed eventually and you dont see me crying on the forum about injustice. It wasnt a big deal.
I'm fairly sure it was just a temporary boot and jailment for ignoring the other DM. Suck it up, be more carefull next time, and just dont ignore a DM trying to solve a situation.
Have fun.
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Norrec
PostSun 05/18/03 2:12pm
Dont use that 10min ban thing. It messed up for me and I couldnt log in for a few weeks!  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now I'm ignorant? Bah!

I'm getting tired of telling people it wasn't the being attacked that bothered me but no one listens to delete post and I'll go hang myself..
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since I was the one who formulated the CROE to cover these sorts of things ... let me try to clarify the intent or spirit of it ...

When it comes to lowbies (and in this case a 4 level difference in characters may or may not be considered a true "lowbie" ... I see the lowbie line as being more like 5-6 or more levels difference) the protection that they are to be afforded comes from them not being the instigator. So in this case, if we take for granted that Nemor's character was indeed a lowbie ... he was the one who did initiate hostilities with the PP. If you engage in "hostile" actions against someone, you have to be willing to deal with possible consequences ... lowbie or not. This is why the CROE says we do not believe in the "I'm a lowbie so you can't kill me" defense.

Insofar as the whole "you got them" bit goes ... it's more like this ... essentially the guidelines are designed to limit the countless returns to the scene of the fight to continue it scenarios. You kill someone, so it's over for you at that point ... but the dead can, if they so choose, try to exact revenge ... generally unwise if they died once already ... but they can choose to do so. The dead returns and enagages again, die again ... now it's over for both sides. Bear in mind this is considered to be happening within a few hours of real time. After a few hours of real time ... basically it's considered that the hostilities are "reset" and it's talen from the top again.
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) i log in
2) see player bitching about haw he will get banned because this server is biased double standard
3) res falk as i do 90% of the time if i am not busy for any one to save them the wait
4) start to understand the bitching is about falk
5) ask falk and nemor the same question : " what is the issue at hand"
6) falk pm me that he spoted a thief and then as he was retaliating they call a higer level to the resque
7) meanwhile read that falkor call nemor and freind moron
icon_cool.gif start to investigate: and think falk might have crossed a line may be i should set him strait
9) no anwser from nemor , re tell , in a more polite way
10) nothing he is still bitching and party telling about unfair the server is
11) re tell
12) nemor continue 10)
13) me : ok stop bitching , if you dont tell me your side of the story haw can i help
14) nemor still not replying continue complaining about the serve and say that the DM told him to shut the fuck up and sit on it
15) this get me off ... as nemor continue the twisting of whats going on
i appear jail him and explain the situation to the player involve..
in jail i hiope to speak with nemor calmly ater
16) still not talkingto me as for why he is in jail nemor continue to bitch about dm beeing .... etc etc
17) that'sk enough for me i kick him 10 minutes


no more to say. on this topic
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