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I hate bioware...
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Kindo
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'specially when you have spent 1000+ hours in heaven, playing all those games...and then hearing about this new game coming out. And you go all like "omg omg omg awesomes!" and then you buy it and you're all like "what...the fuck...is this!?". icon_wink.gif
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ShadowCore
PostTue 06/17/03 8:03pm
Yep, that's exactly what I went through. Thank you for saying that icon_smile.gif  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This...is a game of great impact. How many PW communities have sprung up because of this game? How did this community get started?

I liked it from the beginning. SP got boring so I took it online. Never looked back since.
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dreamin'
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, if you people can't see that comparing NWN to the BG series, Planescape or Fallout is stupid, tne I can't help you.
Sure, the story of those games was way more fun and much better written, Fallout 1/2 is still my favourite RPG. But that's not the point.
NWN has the toolset and a scripting language that's easy to master. Sure, you could script in the IE too, but there were much less function libraries, you had to much more by hand. Do you think those libraries did write themselves in no time?
The toolset is absolutely without competition, I don't know of any game that allows the creation of new worlds purely by clicking with the mouse. Sure, there was nice custom content for the IE, but it was way more complicated to create (And I tried/did it! Did you too?)
Writing the toolset isn't to be done in one manweek, that surely took a fairly big chunk of the development time (look at the problems with porting the toolset to MAC and Linux, it got cancelled, you think that's because noone wanted to spend a few hours on it?)
Handling .2da files is a bit more complicated than it should be, but your oh-so-beloved Infinity engine games used the same stupid .2da files!
Btw, all the trailers Bioware released before launch focused on the toolset/module creation. Why do you think that was?
Another thing: Did you try multiplayer with an infinity engine game? That's another field of work where a lot mantime can be spent, and the difference between NWN and the IE games is quite big
About the engine: unless you have a pretty crappy PC, NWN graphics look better than any other MP capable RPG I know of, and it certainly beats Diablo, and last time I read the forums, several people here still play that
Oh, and the bugs: NWN had some bad showstopping bugs at the beginning, but Bioware is dedicated to fixing them, and patches get released frequently, much unlike most other games out there...
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Ogt
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kindo you're stupid, just because you like single player games it doesnt mean everyone else does, i personally really never play anything single player anymore but the grand theft auto games.

and those games you mention can sug min pipi, i grew up playing old rp games like ultima series, so your crap new games aint no match

what does suck is that you cant fly or climb, its not really a 3D game, since your feet are ALWAYS on the ground

oh yes LEGO RULES and kindo suxxors
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, Oggy, all the scamps miss you, noone is starving himself to death anymore, and there's way too less public drinking lately... Come back and play on Dyso or I'll send you one chicken torture video per day! icon_mrgreen.gif
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Coral_Reef
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everyone here seems to agree that the Official Campaign is bad.

Comparing it to Baldurs gate II

It is not as pretty.
The NPC's are not as good.
The music isn't as good.
The story isn't as good.
The voice acting isn't as good.
Heck the art on the box and the the documentation is worse.



But that doesn't matter to most people.

I see the NWN official campaign as a demonstration of technology of the wonderful tools to make your own adventure and enjoy the work of others.

If you don't take advantage of the builder parts and judge NWN only on the single player game then I agreed it's not as good.
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Kindo
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So basically what you all are saying is that BioWare managed to create a relatively easy way of building your own worlds, and thus letting the players do all the work creating a nice story, nice world, etc? Heh, clever bastards.

[ÅÄÖ]Oggy, tack så mycket för att du påpekade att jag är dum i huvudet och att jag suger. Väldigt sjysst, du gjorde verkligen min dag ljusare. icon_sad.gif [/ÅÄÖ]
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Coral_Reef
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kindo wrote:
So basically what you all are saying is that BioWare managed to create a relatively easy way of building your own worlds, and thus letting the players do all the work creating a nice story, nice world, etc? Heh, clever bastards.


Yes

The model airplanes you make with a Lego set are not as good looking as the ones you get in the model kits.

Tiled terrain is not as good looking.

The price of the flexability is high but worth the effort for those who want to create.

If you want a prepackaged story then NWN is not for you.

If you want maximum prettyness NWN is not for you.

But If you want to create or share others work....
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Little Teapot
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coral Refeefeefeef wrote:
Tiled terrain is not as good looking.

The price of the flexability is high but worth the effort for those who want to create.

If you want a prepackaged story then NWN is not for you.

If you want maximum prettyness NWN is not for you.


I still find the wheel ruts on 45 degree slopes fairly hilarious.
and people HAVE made some nice Texture haks.

though there ARE some severe limitations on the customizability... I'm sure that the Bioware people were slightly depressed that there was no way to get Gust of wind or Calm Emotion in...
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Matthijs says:
   oh ja, ik weet het zonet nog niet
Matthijs says:
   het ziet er toch wel een beetje naar uit dat we nederlands praten
Matthijs says:
   mischien moet ik dan maar eens vaker nederlands gaan praten
Matthijs says:
   kan je me ook meteen niet op al mijn spellinsfouten wijzen
There you have it! indisputable proof Solo's a fascist!!!
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MerchanT
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2003 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Either design a better game or shut up about it. You think Bioware didn't know the standard they set for themselves in THEIR OWN GAMES? For all the bitching in the world we've all been playing it and loving it for over a year and I still do. There's nothing stopping any of you from playing Icewind Dale 2 until the cows come home.

NWN puts more power in the hands of the player/designer/DM than any game BEFORE or SINCE and almost anyone can do it with minimum knowledge or experience.

That's worth twice the $60 I paid for my copy of the game.
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Lord Randall
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2003 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Abysmal 3E D&D computer game - Pool of Radiance, Ruins of Myth Drannor. You think NWN has bugs? THAT game had some strange bug involving saving games, and another bug that tended to destroy a lot of other stuff if you attempted to uninstall it or some such. They had patches out the wazoo just to make it playable.

My personal experience with this game including watching a character vaporize from the screen, and his stats and everything from the side, with NO REASON behind it. I think that's a pretty big bug.

So yeah, maybe Neverwinter's campaign isn't as magical as some of what has come before, but what came before (BG, etc) was either not multiplayer at all, or was terribly horrid at it. And maybe there are issues with resolving certain skills, etc. I for one know I've been pissed at it more than a few times. But to decry it as the worst 3E translation possible and then condemn people for not having played BG2 or Torment or any of the others we've mentioned (yeah, I played them) to know how good it is... try Pool of Radiance and see how truly BAD a game can be. Or better yet, lookup a review from it's release period. I think one I saw gave it a 45%.

I think a more practical word in this case for NWN is Utilitarian. They didn't go the extra mile in terms of story, they didn't tweak all the fine points because they knew we were getting rabid waiting for it, the game is not the killer definitive RPG of all time, in single player and multiplayer. But if it sucked SO badly (you all that are here "strictly for the community") would you have bothered to FIND a community that played the game?
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Spears
PostWed 06/18/03 3:34am
*applauds*  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2003 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Randall wrote:
<snip>

I think a more practical word in this case for NWN is Utilitarian. They didn't go the extra mile in terms of story, they didn't tweak all the fine points because they knew we were getting rabid waiting for it, the game is not the killer definitive RPG of all time, in single player and multiplayer. But if it sucked SO badly (you all that are here "strictly for the community") would you have bothered to FIND a community that played the game?


My major complaint is that during my spell script editing I hit a wall...

you can't assign your own name or text in Dialog.tlk. that pisses me off. everythiong else would be fantastic if you could do that one little thing. hell, you can modify every other rule in the game, add new monsters, Items, and there are some as yet unfinished spells... but you can't edit their content in Dialog.tlk...

Grr...
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Matthijs says:
   oh ja, ik weet het zonet nog niet
Matthijs says:
   het ziet er toch wel een beetje naar uit dat we nederlands praten
Matthijs says:
   mischien moet ik dan maar eens vaker nederlands gaan praten
Matthijs says:
   kan je me ook meteen niet op al mijn spellinsfouten wijzen
There you have it! indisputable proof Solo's a fascist!!!
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Hurin
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2003 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, all I can say is: If you can make a better game that represents D&D 3rd Edition, go ahead......otherwise shutup. I would love to see any of you whinners spend the ours writting out code to make your own D&D game. And I dont mean using the NWN toolset to make a world..I mean make your own game.
And another thing...Why the hell are you guys complaining about the single player game? icon_confused.gif It wasnt supposed to be as good as Baldurs Gate or Icewind Dale, it was just meant as an introductory so you could learn how the game worked. NWN was built so that an online community of gammers could play D&D together in thier own custom worlds. So guess what, if you like Dysotopia you like NWN because Dysotopia was made from the NWN game.
And for those of you whinners that reply saying that you are making your own game that is better....prove it. Or better yet, go play Shadow Bane, and then you'll really have a reason to complain (Whinners:" But that costs money!....I've been PK'ed to much!.....A hacker threw me into an ocean and I drowned!...whine whine whine icon_evil.gif )
It's like I said on another post...if you dont like it.....do us all a favor and leave.
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Maelstrom696969
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2003 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Q1. Is the single player game a bit lacking?
Q2. Could the scripting etc. for worldbuilding be more robust?
Q3. Does it have bugs?

A1. Yes, but I think they built NWN with Multiplay being the main selling point. For crying out loud, they built the single-player campaign using the very Worldbuilder that comes with the game!
A2. Yes. Now, find me one that's better.
A3. Yes. Now, find me a game that does not.

I must admit I just kind of scanned through all the other posts, but Ogt and MerchanT and Lord Randall bring up some EXCELLENT points.

Teapot, we can only hope that NWN2 or whatever is next will be at least twice what NWN is, right? That would be so sweet!

Kindo, why in the heck did you start playing again if you hate this game so much? And Shadowcore, please. I mean, c'mon you guys. I like QuakeII more than QuakeIII more than Unreal Tournament2003 more than Counterstrike. But guess which one I play? Counterstrike, because it's got the latest and greatest stuff and is overall the most enjoyable because of what's been done to it.
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Kindo
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2003 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a way to meet friends and spend some time with them. Just being together...fooling around in a game. That's why I don't even bother to log on if I don't see anyone I know in the player list. It's useless to join then. Being all alone with a bunch of strangers in a game that sucks...no thanks.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2003 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"All alone with a bunch of strangers". Hmmm.... Seriously, I'm not picking on you Kindo, but I just read that and it made me think of something.

Massive turn off-topic:

You know, having kids really has helped my perspective on so much. For example, I have twin boys, and one of them used to be really shy. He still is around adults usually, but he'll just say HI to someone that happens to walk by our car while we're at a red light or if we're in the front lawn playing frisbee and someone rides by on their bike. You know, people he's never met before. My other son does this, too, but not quite as much. Yes, kids don't know how truly bad strangers can be, but the display of innocent kindness is just plain awesome. To bad most societies drill this out of so many of us.
Anyway, the thing with Jarrod (the first child I spoke of), is that if we go to the park and - as is usually the case - there's nobody there we know, he'll just point to the closest group of kids and say "I'm going to go play with those friends!" and run off and have a blast.
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Kindo
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2003 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK well...the reason I'm holding up with this game is simply for the fact that I can meet some very nice friends in it. I'm not playing it for the "game". I'm playing it for my friends. So I guess that's why I don't bother to join if all I can do is run around randomly hoping to find someone to interact with. What i do is log on, get into some kind of conversation with some friends in there, and only RP if I bump into anyone. Hmm...not sure what else to say. But I know that lots more feel this way. That if there's noone you know in-game, there's no point in going there.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tp, there is a way to fly... at least for a few seconds, its called special abilty wing buffets, it makes your character fly...
oh and calm emotions the spell? The script is hidden in one of the .2da files, included with a spell icon...
btw: Why cant I post on the goblin topic.... :S
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2003 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bah, Bioware should give us a GUI front end to LPC I say. MUDS r0x0red way before NWN, BG and the like (maybe even before pens and paper was invented though Im not sure about that ). icon_wink.gif
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