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Character Creation
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Conrad Hollows
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2003 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gaea - Yes you contributed to the thread ... on the heels of my just having explained a bunch about why I didn't see some subrace/monster race setups as being terribly wise as player characters.

Your post was essentially "Well it works well over on this other mod, etc. etc."

I don't care what works over on some other mod. Don't care and don't want to hear about it. When you start relying too much on what the Jones' are doing, you run into the whole bit of inheriting some of the problems that these other mods have with said issues. If you think its a good idea, then say it's a good idea ... you can do that and explain why without having to get into "other module business."

There is a small handful of issues where I have no room for compromise ... monsters as character races is one of them, having the whole module totally PVP is another. People can go on and on about how cool it would be, how real or fun or whatever ... makes no difference, I will not budge. When someone starts arcing talk in a direction favorable to one of these issues I will not budge on, I will slam the door on the discussion pretty quickly and abruptly.
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gaea106
PostSat 07/19/03 6:10pm
Ok, no monster races or subraces for the new module. If there is no budging on any of the issues in this thread then I suggest it should be locked.  Reply with quote
 
Uin
PostSat 07/19/03 6:58pm
No really, its to ask question on character creation.  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2003 7:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Character Creation Reply with quote

Uin wrote:
What are you planning for the rules? Names?


OK back on topic then since the last part was nixed.
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Foozbane
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2003 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty much in agreement with Conrad on the subrace issues ... I think, at least for the first phase of development, all subraces should be off the table. There is so much work to do, just with the base races and classes that we get with NWN, that subraces goes beyond being a useful addition for now.

At some imaginary future point, I could foresee doing the necessary work to add very restricted subraces into the game. But the payoff (having just a few players who play a given subrace) when compared to the amount of work required to implement, make them a very questionable choice of time investment in my eyes.

Nonetheless, I'm always open to the possibility that eventually, it may start to make a lot of sense to add such niceties in.

Fooz
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Zedium
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also agree with you guys on keeping subraces for a later point in time, I also agree on putting a heavy straight jacket on what a player can do with them, with giving them limited classes, allignment and of course making them targets.

And concerning vampires and lycantropes, I think we should add these in a totally different stage, personally, I don't think these will be overused if we do it right, who wants to play a vampire if the whole world wants to put a stake through your heart, you burn in sunlight and can't even go into a building because you aren't invited?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zedium wrote:
I also agree with you guys on keeping subraces for a later point in time, I also agree on putting a heavy straight jacket on what a player can do with them, with giving them limited classes, allignment and of course making them targets.

And concerning vampires and lycantropes, I think we should add these in a totally different stage, personally, I don't think these will be overused if we do it right, who wants to play a vampire if the whole world wants to put a stake through your heart, you burn in sunlight and can't even go into a building because you aren't invited?


Like the vampire idea, and as for the first paragraph. Make ATLEAST drow always hostile.
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Z
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, way too many people play on what they think is the moral issue, of "be nice to drow, they shoudl be accepted they are sentient creatures"... but the fact is that 99% of Faerun believe that the correct stance is to kill it and ask questions later. And dont talk to me about Drizzt.....

But about subraces, I agree with Conrad and hence Fooz and hence Zedium...and.. I think most people agree with them.
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Ectovult
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Subraces will not be abused if the process is done correctly.
Some heavy restrictions and penalties will definately do the trick.

PLUS, they will increase the variety and the RP possibilities a LOT! icon_mrgreen.gif
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Uin
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If theres only 1 aasimmar on the entire server, how is it gonna increase RP possibilites, especially then most are just mistaken for humans anyway. I'd rather the devs focused on content for the races the game is already designed for. Think Loads of quests and decent NPCs, or subraces...
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aye, totally agree with you Uin.
There are MUCH MORE important things to think about, before subraces.
Just showing some points here in "why" and "how" subraces would be cool... in the FUTURE... not too near future... icon_razz.gif
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Ultrafoo
PostMon 07/21/03 3:50pm
I think the monsterous races that are good, the good drow, the assimars, etc, should be left to characters(npcs) created for DM use only in quests.  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ultrafoo wrote:
I think the monsterous races that are good, the good drow, the assimars, etc, should be left to characters(npcs) created for DM use only in quests.


I think the actual abilities should be left to DM and NPCs. If a player really wants to, they can just Roleplay the subrace or whatever. I don't think we really need any subraces/monster races in scripting, just let players rp it.
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Zedium
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have learned one thing from playing NWN, never EVER trust on the roleplay of players, but like we said, Subraces are for a later time, first we need to finish the mod itself.
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Jase
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zedium wrote:
I have learned one thing from playing NWN, never EVER trust on the roleplay of players, but like we said, Subraces are for a later time, first we need to finish the mod itself.


lol too true. What I meant was leave it for a later time and just let players rp it till you put it in.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,
Heres my ideas on this.....

#1 subraces are cool...but like its been said most can't roleplay em well...so i agree they shouldn't be here.

#2 Some players (after the mod is up and running) could present ideas to the creators for a more powerful charecter they can rp when the dm's arent on. this charecter would have dm given powers i.e. a vampire lord could subvert npc's and create a vampire breeding area, or a goblin king could invade the town.....

#3 but like anything else...who gets to do it...everyone want s to but not all can. Myself i just wanna play and find loot. icon_mrgreen.gif
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

"But we were good RPers, we of the goblin clan ... we gave you something to do" is the usual defense. Stripped now of my having to fret over being polite and even-handed with someone elses' world, I can react more honestly ... no, you weren't. There were indeed some instances where the goblins were "amusing" and even "played well enough" but by in large, to me, it was one big grief festival always bordering on explosion into chaos ... and what it did was have the DMs and moderators doing double-time work to make sure folks were staying within the lines of decent play ... and when there were no mods and DMs around, then all hell would break loose and invariably it was always someone elses' fault.

You don't play a monster to try to excuse your behavior of "well I'm a goblin, this is what I do" and then on the same token get irate when others kill you for that same reason with the defense of "they won't let me roleplay, they always hunt me, this isn't fair." If I had been more of a mind to really "throw my weight around," I'd have declared open season on all goblins everywhere as a potential threat to the security of the realm. I DIDN'T do that because I knew full well I'd be inundated with the "so-and-so keeps killing my character, my goblin can't get levels because I keep getting killed." I pick and choose my battles selectively and this was one I didn't need a headache over then. Given the opportunity to define and address the issue at the outset ... the answer is simple to me -- don't allow monster races as player characters. Nifty, all done, no problem. There is no one who MUST have a monster race character and if you think you are the exception, kindly find a module that allows it.

Yeah I imagine a bunch of goblin supporters/players will come out now and say how great and fun they were ... yippee, ask me if I really care ... because I don't.



I think I was the biggest victim to those damn Goblins. Since Hati went berserk on me, I couldn't go a day without being attacked by at least 3 Goblins. It was a right pain in the neck, though fun when I kick their asses, got rather annoying and tiring.

Are Deities going to be playable? Only to very exclusive people of course..
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Are Deities going to be playable? Only to very exclusive people of course..




Maybe icon_smile.gif
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Conrad Hollows
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still the subrace talk drones on ... and still I will say that even if we DO include some subraces, that's something for way on down the line.

I will, however, reiterate something I said earlier ... people who make up a halfling and then walk around claiming to be a goblin or kobold ... or people who make pale humans and claim to be vampires ... they are probably not going to like my general reaction to them.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bioware should just include MORE playable races inside there expansions...i think having people who want to play Goblins actually be able to make a goblin charcter thats really a goblin with tha stats and etc all fit into goblin specifics is a really cool idea...and not just goblins...orcs and ect....i mean shit...dont you get tired of seeing tha same old same old?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with that is people like to play goblins without the negatives. You want a goblin with Goblin stats? :
8 Str, 12 Dex, 8 Con, -123 Int, -234 Wis, -435245243 Cha. And hell we'll give em 2 points to spend on points. Who wants to play a character that is incapable of doing anything besides die.
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AliZee'
PostWed 07/23/03 5:04pm
well thentheyshouldnt play um then....but tha option shoud still be there  Reply with quote
 
Ultrafoo
PostThu 07/24/03 6:14pm
Fair enough.  Reply with quote
 
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