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Just curious...
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M-K
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miss the point .When Dyso was around got much more criticism than Tuskan has received in these few answers most days.It aint really a question of design of pretty maps and things though I think Tuskans maps are pretty.It isnt per se ease of travel or things.There was better mods than Dyso and worse but none better to play for us at least.What made the mod work was the people the killing the acting the fools the idiots all the parts contributed.And made it a fun place though many didnt seem to see that wanting this person or that group banned.
itsv simple if you get the people back it will work if not all yer design for good or bad is meaningless.how you get people back is FUN forget little tricks or things.Think how do we make it FUN.its pointless having more ships to faraway places or super extra shops if there empty.The shops the items the boats wont bring people they are dry things they are not FUN.
So how by making things happen for people who are on.You have enuf in your teams to spare someone to DM to make events jokes FUN.
The only one Ive seen trying to make that effort is Solo .Though im sure the rest of you haver contributed at times.At times needs to be regular getting a player base is so much more important than designing a new docks bathouse or some new item.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yay Sep! Well, there is something to be said for using dyso as a framework but it has its dangers as well. Personally i didn't find Dyso all that great, except for the community and size. At first yea, just starting out with NWN and finding this big mod with lots of fun people. But getting to know the toolset what was made with it for Dyso wasnt all that special...It had its great areas but most were so undetailed, lacking any dressing up. Light, sounds, placables, npc were mostly absent throughout the mod. Often i found the encounters rather random, never really found a reason for why monsters were in a given area or what their purpose was. Spiders just outside sylvandale, no guards, glathers in its sewers. What were they all doing there? Trolls just outside kravenwood with no one patrolling the lands except the uber immunos inside the citywalls. Not to mention the lack of placables other than sittable chairs and benches. I dunno, if people are going to compare Dyso to Tuskan i would appreciate it if they looked at Dyso a little more... objectively... Comparing it to dyso i think isn't altogether fair unless you demystify Dyso first.
What made Dyso great was the community and MK is right in that the mod will only grow on people if we can entice them to come play here, even if the mod is far from finished. it is a matter of reaching critical mass though, the more people play the more events are being set up the more people will be coming around to play, community grows, more people come out of interest, etc, etc, more Dm's added etc, etc.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my take on this is simple : The world is too incomplete to be interesting to me. Scorp and i both would rather build and help the mods progress than play, anywho - i was sick of playing, much like Conrad became sick of it and DMed most of the time. I might go back sometime, occasionally, but i'd rather build for awhile.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems to me that it's a little premature to make judgements about Tuskan right now. I would say I'm one of 3-4 regulars there, and I think less of playing than playtesting. I'd say, think of a "start date" by which you hope to have a good working version of the mod. Once you have the start, you can plan on ways to bring folks in. (I'm sure you've already got that planned). At this point, we can bring in all of our friends, but with the number of kinks to fix, it's not really playable for the masses (except as a gathering place). I think it would be a mistake to try to get a huge mass right now...it's too soon.

I concur with Mer's point. In order to reach the critical mass, the mod needs to be in shape to hold its own during lulls in players. That is, with 50 players, they can entertain one another. However, with 5 players, the mod itself needs to captivate them. It's not an either-or (players versus mod).

And the point about the Dyso community... we will never have the same relationships we had before. Everyone is scattered, with new loyalties. Some have kept grudges. However, what we can hope for is a new Tuskan community, one just as fun as old Dyso. And I agree... we romanticize Dyso too much. There were/are many mods that had better coherence, etc. (Tusk already seems much more coherent than Dyso).

{edit add} The point about incomplete shops is serious. You can't buy bullets, shortbows, or thieving tools, for example. However, there are a lot of swords. I know the shops are being fixed, but my point is that details like this are important.

Also, the DM's have been online in Tuskan... Thanks to you!

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

People, stop comparing tuskandale to dysotopia, dysotopia is no more. Tuskandale is not eleriina, its a whole new city, one that we are still working on. We can change things that are not perfect, no need to keep whining over and over.


Gorb asked why people weren't playing and I told him. Believe me when I say the LAST THING I would EVER do is compare tuskadale to Dysotopia. There just aren't enough negative qualifying adjectives.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually one other yet important reason why I not play much Tuskan or other now.ITS SUMMER !!!!!! which means beaches sightseeing shopping ...All those things that are not so popular in Winter when its rainiing snowing dark.Personally think some of the problem wityh player numbers look at other mods too is SEASONAL .I mean not to be too nasty BUT if you want to stay in and play PC game when the sun is out the sea warm surfing good...there must be a problem with the little grey cells.When it rains when its nasty out ill be back for now its the occassional visit.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will be glad to come back to Tuskan when its finished. Let me know when the "start date" is and yee will see me there. I have kind of been busy, Xbox games comeing out, playing a few new games, stuff like that. Just give me a call and I will come back. I always thoght that Tuskan was in a testing stage, and that after that a char wipe would happen and it would offically start. On a side note, who won that conversation contest?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tried it but the server would not respond.

Some of the reasons I stay out of the server town too big with nothing to do and no-one to interract with (I can only spend so long running around a town by myself), once I found a way out just to be immediately killed...I yet have to find the exit again.....

If a Mod is not immediately catching then ppl will leave and not return, that's why I used to love Dyso so much (i had not completed the game when I forst went to Dyso and it took Dyso going away for me to finish the campaign and the SoU one)
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll say not only is the world unfinished and lacks user friendlyness is that a lot of it just isn't user friendly. You can go into one area and not get out the same way you came in, go into a building and end up outside, talk to an NPC labeled "Commoner" and hear about how he is a world famous cleric for some reason. The guards all need to be fixed. One other thing was there is a total lack of map markers. I wouldn't mind the largness of the city myself if it had map markers and working area transitions.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Put some pix of Tuskan in the gallery. Those areas are very aesthetically pleasing, especially the gallows overlooking the valley stream. What a view to die seeing.
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PostWed 07/30/03 11:33pm
Continuing from that sidenote, I'm wondering who won as well.  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2003 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I'm wondering is: you call this Tuskandale, but where are all the Tusks? What's the deal with that? Was it named after a bunch of Elephant poachers? Were they a people like the Turks? Is this a spinoff from Star Wars' Tuskan Raiders??? WHAT???
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Ok, serious opinions now.

You start on the docks.. all you can see around you is large grey stones that decorate the area- the buildings are the same color as the ground- and the light blue mist compliments both very nicely.

My problem? Dull.


Holy christ Palladium! And I thought I was the only person in the world to absolutely HATE dull looking games!!!!!! icon_biggrinno.gif

Yeah... that's one of the things, it's dull and a pain in the ass. First thing that happened to me when I got on was that I was diseased... wow that really sucked.

Also, if I may add, if you want to get more players, try and make them unique in some way! I mean, one of the cool things about dyso was that you were given 20,000 to mess around with... Now... I know that's a crapload probably in this mod, but you see, it let characters customize how they wanted their character to look, act, and perform in battle. Sure, it may not have been much, Leather Armor +1, Short Sword +1, etc. But you see, people LIKE that! Why do you think that everyone in dyso had some sort of glowing weapon? Because it looked cool! Essentially, as shoddy as it may sound, it was a guidance to help role playing....


Just my two cents!
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2003 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea glowing swords are about the most important things to roleplaying.
I totally agree, i'll have to tell the rest of the team to make glowy swords available in the shops at level 1. We should also make sure to turn off item level limitations so everyone can have a glowy weapon from the start. Oh, oh, wait! We'll use a hakpak and make it so everyone will have their own personal banner stuck on their back with personal messages like:"I don't brake for paladins" or "owe you bitch" in 7 colors or "I am Uberman".

20000 items my hiney... icon_lol.gif i saw the item lists. I also happen to remember pretty much everyone always whining about everyone wearing the same damn outfits on Dyso...

Guess we're back at the glowy discussion. Sorry but if you want to get those glowy items you'll have to grit your teeth in the new mods cause they won't be easy to get. And THEN it might define some of your character because it actually means something having earned it instead of having bought the newest fantasy equivalent of Nike shoes in the local store. You won't find any of that stuff in any of the stores nor are the stores you seen so far resemble the final ones. There's a lot more available than you seen.
If you want a glowy weapon you can either happen upon it during a quest, join a guild once they are in place or make it once the crafter npc's are in place. Because gosh golly gee wiz, those items are actually in the mod to be used as DM or quest event drops, i just don't want you to get your hands on it unless for testing purposes.
So be patient or ask a DM to show you some stuff when you're in game. icon_razz.gif
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2003 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With Falk on that point totally. Everyone walking around with glowing things rather annoyed me. But agree with Palladium and Fox about docks. The docks and city is nice... but as a starting area... big turn off. Although Yes, "its still an UN-finished mod you asshole" i dont think itd be good in any state as a starting area unless it was seriously reformed. And Yes, "Falk is probably changing the starting point you ignorant t**t", but I hope it is more newbie friendly and less dull.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2003 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol Z, and yea starting area is different in next upload. Instead of the docks you start in a busy tavern, then you go out into the bazaar which has standard merchants selling pretty much everything a starting adventurer of any class requires and they sell outside instead of shops ooommggs, and then yes another request (!) you can go out the city using just one wall gate! Ooooh!
Or travel into the city to visit those other areas. The Bazaar has a nice calming pool with overgrown pillars, palmtrees, the soft twittering of birds in the huge tree that is in the center of the bazaar.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2003 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Falkhor wrote:
Yea glowing swords are about the most important things to roleplaying.
I totally agree, i'll have to tell the rest of the team to make glowy swords available in the shops at level 1. We should also make sure to turn off item level limitations so everyone can have a glowy weapon from the start. Oh, oh, wait! We'll use a hakpak and make it so everyone will have their own personal banner stuck on their back with personal messages like:"I don't brake for paladins" or "owe you bitch" in 7 colors or "I am Uberman".

20000 items my hiney... icon_lol.gif i saw the item lists. I also happen to remember pretty much everyone always whining about everyone wearing the same damn outfits on Dyso...

Guess we're back at the glowy discussion. Sorry but if you want to get those glowy items you'll have to grit your teeth in the new mods cause they won't be easy to get. And THEN it might define some of your character because it actually means something having earned it instead of having bought the newest fantasy equivalent of Nike shoes in the local store. You won't find any of that stuff in any of the stores nor are the stores you seen so far resemble the final ones. There's a lot more available than you seen.
If you want a glowy weapon you can either happen upon it during a quest, join a guild once they are in place or make it once the crafter npc's are in place. Because gosh golly gee wiz, those items are actually in the mod to be used as DM or quest event drops, i just don't want you to get your hands on it unless for testing purposes.
So be patient or ask a DM to show you some stuff when you're in game. icon_razz.gif


I don't know if it was just me but you sounded totally like a prick on that issue. Thing is, I'm serious. Yeah sure, its SAD, but its true! Personally, I don't give a shit either way, I probably won't play this module anyway, but because I'm a nice guy, I thought that I would offer my advice. So... guess that ideas shot. Good luck, jerk.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2003 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Number 1 sounds good to me, I WANT MY DRUID BACK!

I think that was my biggest beef, I spent ages getting my char, items and levelling, as you all know I took longer than most if not everyone to level. Months it took me to get to lvl 19, then it gets whiped. It's a shitty way to go.

But Local Vault or imported dyso chars sounds wubbly.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2003 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FoxBoyTails wrote:
I don't know if it was just me but you sounded totally like a prick on that issue. Thing is, I'm serious. Yeah sure, its SAD, but its true! Personally, I don't give a shit either way, I probably won't play this module anyway, but because I'm a nice guy, I thought that I would offer my advice. So... guess that ideas shot. Good luck, jerk.


That's not cool at all, he was just relaying a point, this mod has been all about realism. In all my pnp experiences, i never owned a glowy sword, and i certainly don't recall seeing anything i could ever kill with one. Ask Mitch, he's played it longer than any of us, but i think he'd agree. I think most people from dyso were a bit sick of things that were too uber, they wanted a change from the ordinary...no glowy swords, not everyone wearing dragons armor...etc., etc. I think it'd be nice to only sell +3's on every normal item and keep the rest for dm quests and really tough quests, but that's just me. I think Falky was not trying to be mean, he was merely taking Conrad's earlier standpoint - If you want glowy swords and terrible roleplay and all that shit, all for the sake of being uber, go to a server that promotes terrible roleplay and all that shit...it's called Arkania.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea nothing personal. We had this discussion before. You made your point, I made mine by exposing the inherent sillyness of your argument through rigorous application of sarcasm. I'm never gonnna buy the "uberness for individuality" argument.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You only get uberness for originality when each character has items that nobody else has ... and that is not going to be terribly likely.

:: shrugs ::

Someone not long ago told me that the core of the "dyso-loyalists" would not be the "target audience" for the new modules because they would not be super-uber mods insofar as power went. Sure there'd be some aritifacts and stuff you had to bust your tail to get ... but with few to fewer items over the level 18 range, the l'enfant terrible crowd would not be happy.

The more I think about it the more I think that's not a bad thing after all.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Someone not long ago told me that the core of the "dyso-loyalists" would not be the "target audience" for the new modules because they would not be super-uber mods insofar as power went.



Quite true, the so called "Dyso Loyalists" were all about being uber as possible, with CA they would find nothing the same as Dysotopia... so if they loose that then they probably don't want to stay, as they have no glowy swords and stuff....

As for Fox, if you cant just take an answer for what it is, maybe you should leave, it's only an opinion.

Personally I think that less glowy stuff isn't a bad idea, but as all things go, the "luck of heros" always seems to happen once in a while and your average joe fighter finds a +10 longsword of slaying or something to the like and becomes well known ...

Not a bad thing, it's simply character development..... and a balance of those "glowy swords" and people wearing normal chain mail isn't a bad thing either... but hey, whatever goes.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

just to get back in topic
Quote:
Just curious as to why no one is EVER on the Tuskan US server? I mean, never! I think the max people I've ever seen on it is 2! 2 people! $100+/month DSL line and it's never ever used? Give us some feedback here, what is going on with this? Things you hate, things you like. How can one ever get better if one doesn't know what is wrong? If it continues this way, I'll have little choice but to drop the connection rate.


It really depends what to you expect Tuskan US to be ?

Is Tuskan US , a beta server, for a work in progress? Or a way to support the former Dyso community (Id est , to offer them a place to play because you were no longer hosting dyso).
Or is it a bit of both…

If it’s a way to support the former dyso community then I would say, It kind of fail. as player and it is understandable rather enjoy them self on a finished mod (as arkania for ex).

Drifting away to the topic now

Splitting or hitting on the "Dyso Loyalists" wont do you any good imho. After all Har-R was presented as a new mod for dyso’s heart : the players. That Har-R will be tring to reach ideals for dyso’s community.
Imho you should have rather stated from the start you were making Har-R with a new vision a new vision more hardRP , and that likely it will not fit for a huge chunk of dyso players..

In the end player will play were they enjoy them self most, If they like glowing item or multiclassing 19/1 lvl and those thing are designated as "bad" for the development team of the mod . Nothing wrong with that… You can just safe everyone’s time by stating clearly what the mod is about.

To my deepest regret this was never done in Dyso, and if “role-players” and “action players”
Were coexisting peace fully 6 months ago. In the end it ended up in a la JPSartre “ hell are other people” situation.

I don’t think you want to value my opinion on the glowing weapon issue, but I’ll give it to you anyway:
Imho glowing weapon and +5 weapon are not an issue, it is just a question of balance.
If your “stronger” weapon is +2 or +5 it does not make a difference if the balance or the fight is not set accordingly. In other words limiting to +2 does not make any sense. What you need is a probability to hit and to be hit that scales.
argument based on "probability" or "vrai semblance" to fight dragon or to find a +10 weapons... are made by players forgetting that the add rules aim to give guild line to an enjoyment, not the other way around, they should aim to enjoy them self in an other way than learning ADD rule books by hearts



The problem you have is giving an aim to the players. If you don’t and if they can provide them self with an IC play. The only thing they have left is to “powerplay” and go Bach monsters. Quest wont really help anything. “Aim” is the key .

Thos is the conclusion I came to. I think now that it is better than the
“if you want uber your and idiot you are ruining everyone’s experience, go elsewhere” line.
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PostMon 08/04/03 11:15am
All I can say here is: "Amen"  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You make some decent points here. Tend to agree actually. Problem one is, tuskan is still not done, it is a work in progress.
As such the roleplay guidelines, the setting's campaign storylines aren't particularly clear and so it seems as though the only thing it is good for is bashing a couple of monsters before accidentally teleporting to some random location.

Hmm, theme, direction, let's see...
I'll post on that later...
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Conrad Hollows
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never made any claims to be trying to replace Dysotopia or to appease anyone's heart, I am not that altruistic. The only thing I've undertaken is working on a module that I am involved with from the ground up such that nobody is going to tell me that my input is unwelcome.

If dyso-people like it and play it, wonderful ... if they don't, so be it ... plenty of them I won't miss. icon_smile.gif
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To get back at Gorb's initial inquiry: In case anyone's noticed, the handful of "regulars" have left Tuskan. Please let us know when you plan to go back to Tuskan Vault and also when you update the mod. I'd be happy to continue playtesting then.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would really like to start back with the Tuskan vault as well. I have some ideas for really original characters that I cant wait to try out. I am going to take into account the more "looked over" weaponry and armors with these characters. One is a concept character inspired by a film I watched a long time ago. The other is going to have an interesting affinity for Halflings. I also want to get my Bard going as well. Wow, so many ideas to try...hehe...maybe Ill figure something out.
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Tae
PostMon 08/04/03 3:13pm
Oh on Sep's comment about trying out different chars... During the playtesting phase, can we remove the "one character per reset" restriction?  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess that can be arranged. Also new upload will be done by wednesday hopefully, with revised and expanded shops, a new starting area, new areas linked up to excisting ones. I was thinking of giving players 5 free levels at start during this testing phase if we're going back to the Tuskan vault.Personally i much prefer going back to the Tuskan vault, All the level 20 Dyso characters get bored too fast since there isn't much for them to do yet.
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