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LOS up to PKing again and again and again and again.....
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Reebar
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2002 1:42 am    Post subject: LOS up to PKing again and again and again and again..... Reply with quote

Looks like LOS is up yo PKing again and again and again and again ....icon_sad.gif Thought this was sorted out. But I guess not ..... They pulled the toll stunt again .... not extravegant... but i was not about to pay. Nemisis, attacked and killed a friend .......then attacked me.... so i attacked back, and killed her ... her comment was "so you don't pay a toll:)". Well, to make it short, seems that one on one, they can't handle, so she brings in 2 buddies, and repeatedly kills me, as well as rob me ..... I am only 16th, they are 20th and need to do this?? This PK bullshit from LOS is getting out of hand. I was told if this continued, something would be done ...... Well??

I want to remind the DM's on this server ...... you are supposed to deal with this type of "play" ........ THIS IS NOT ROLEPLAYING! Killing repeatedly ,and robbing repeatedly is not roleplaying, nor fun when you are the victim .

your PKer's "Nemisis" of Stargate ( coward, PKer and PPer )
Don Juan Demarcos ( if I spelt it wrong too bad)
Masako DeOni ( backup?)

Personally, I prefer a CD ban ..... maybe that will get other PKer's to think twice about what they are doing. From what I have seen, anything that has been done about it so far has had very little affect. Maybe something more serious needs to be done .... and a CD ban may be the only resort.

If any DM wants more details .......... just ask
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Kindo
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2002 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If what you are saying is true. This is really bad.
Falk has worked really hard to prevent this sort of thing.

If it is as you say and you were repetedly pk:ed and robbed.
Those individuals would get kicked out of the guild or something.
But I must leave this one to Falk and the ones involved to sort out.

If it is true, LoS guys. I am ashamed of you.
But please give us your side of the story aswell.


Kindo
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Nefiorim
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2002 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lol it wasn't repeatedly, Reebar here came back himself... time after time.
As for PP-ing, it's only to make a statement (my skill at PP-ing is only 11, I NEVER succeed).
Furthermore, I didn't ask for the other 2 to come in and help me, Don Juan merely asked me for your names, which I provided. He came in on his own accord (for which I am still grateful).
The fact is, you're just pissed off because he disarmed you, and took away your rapier.
Besides it was 1 on 3 at first (me being the 1), learn how to count..
To summarize:
-THERE WAS NO CHAIN PP, NOT EVEN MULTIPLE PP ATTEMPTS, NOT EVEN 1 SUCCESFUL PP ATTEMPT
-THERE WAS NO REPEATED KILLING (only when you kept coming back, which basically is your fault, you could've gone somewhere else as well... I hear Kravenwood is rather safe nowadays).
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Mr. Red Hashmeer
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2002 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

how many times does Red Hashmeer have to say?
04274139978917809u894- to the fourth power son
tolling is in the boundries of rping as long as it is reasonable, and knowing nef and the donmiester, they were most likely charging reasonable prices, i may have not been there but one thing is for sure:
TOLLS?TAXES ARE WITHIN THE BOUNDRIES OF RP
enough said
no arguement over it
no contestment
just the above stated fact
end of discussion
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Reebar
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2002 3:58 am    Post subject: interesting .... Reply with quote

First, it was you that came back after your failed attempt to exact a toll, (btw: I had no prob with the toll, just the results when we did not pay ) and tried a second time to kill me, but this time you had back up..... when I tried to defend myself, it was you and Don Jaun that attacked me, and one of my party members stepped in to help, since it was two on one, just to even the odds. Is it not interesting that you and Don died that time, and we were still standing. We thought it was over and you would leave us alone ..... then you 2 relogged/respawned and attacked again with a 3rd close behind. YOU should have left it as it was ... you lost and should have left us alone. But no, you had to get backup, and try again .... after you 3 ( 20th level chars) killed us all ..... and you were rummaging my dead, body ( remember a player can still see what is happening when dead), then I logged out so I would not have everything stolen. When I relogged, I tried to get away, but you hunted me ...... when I tried to get to the Sylvenwood Temple, you attacked and killed me again. There was no way I was going to take on the 3 of you alone........ but you could not leave it alone, finally I respawned close enough to the temple to make a run, but you were still attacking me as I was running for the door.

'nuff said
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kyp durron
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2002 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i hope this doesnt mean ya gonna stop playing on dyso?

u could always shout for help...im sure a over zealous member of the White Rose would love to help ya out
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2002 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This was something Uin's been on me to post ... heh ... I've held off because I wasn't totally sure it was needed, but I'll toss it up here (as good a place as any) ...

What is it? It's essentially the "rules" insofar as the whole tax/war stuff that always seems to get everyone's panties bunched up in a wad. These were reached in discussion between Uin and myself (and, dare I say it? I was more tax-friendly than Uin was?) as well as with input from Bri and others who happened to be around to chime in.

You can first note, first and foremost, that Bri has already said (pretty clearly I might add) that "If you are caught taxing, don't cry if you get jailed." That pretty much covers all things in all places ... and I understand him to have a generally similar view on a good deal of the PKing. I do think Bri understands that some of it is "good for flavor," however, and ... as with so many things ... so long as its done in a responsible and with moderation, folks like myself and Uin (moderators) are less inclined to jail you. So what are those general terms?

Taxing in the cities/at city gates and the "newb" areas isn't going to fly. What's a newb area? Eleriina, the valley, Ogre areas on thru East Pass and up to Butterfly Fields. The cities/gates would be either inside the cities or outside them to prevent entry. Gloth would be excluded, of course. Basically if you wanna tax, you better be out in the thick of the encounter zones yourself when you're doing it.

Taxing for assinine amounts of money isn't going to fly. We came up with a figure of around 1000gp as being about the most workable. Should be less for lower level characters, perhaps some more for the extremely powerful. If someone refuses to pay, you let them walk ... the other way, of course. The pay or die crap doesn't fly, either. If they refuse and try to rush you or attack you or whatever ... well, then, sure, attack back ... but you really do need to give them the option to turn around and walk away.

It doesn't need to be stated, I'd hope, but I will say it anyway ... if it comes to combat ... if someone gets killed, fine, they're dead. No rez-rapes. No chain-PPs or character strip-downs. Flip side ... if you get killed in one of these scuffles (be you the taxer or the taxee), resist the urge to logoff and run and get your "god character" to come back for revenge. Insofar as I am concerned, that's as jailable an offense as the taxing itself.

On wars and assassinations and such ... Uin and I would appreciate it muchly if you'd let us know a bit about what is going on before it happens. This would be OOC info, of course, and I suppose some will not want to let on what is happening. That's fine ... but bear in mind if the mods aren't aware of it and they find some big PK fest going on, peeps are probably gonna get jailed all over the place and then it'll get sorted out after. The same sorts of terms apply with this as with the previous, at any rate.

This moreso with wars ... if two groups are determined to have some pitched battle against each other ... then we do solemnly request you utilize the Pit. If need be, Uin and I are willing to "referee" it a bit if we can and if need be to make sure no abuses take place and both sides can get into the area and set up before the combat starts. Why the Pit? It's generally under used and designed for PvP ... it's also out of the way of most of the places where people are just doing their thing. I know I know ... folks are going to say "staging a war like that totally takes away the ambush factor," and I suppose it does ... but it's the only thing we could come up with that allowed the war in the first place without having others trying to play getting killed by no fault of their own. If folks start up big pitched PvP fights elsewhere ... they run the risk of jail, that's just the way it is.

Above and beyond all this is, again, what Bri said ... so keep that in mind. The taxing and such are still, basically, not a terribly welcome thing, but we do understand the desire for it by some and are trying to present some manner to allow for it without ruining things for others. The moderators aren't always on or available so sometimes the above mentioned stuff will happen in ways violating the "rules" and that's just the way it goes. People do talk, however, and if constant complaints are coming in about particular people doing that, then they're going to find that if they are caught doing it anywhere in any way, shape or form, they'll end up jailed. So ... police yourselves.

And why do I keep putting quotes around the word rules? Basically because it's always a judgement call and nothing is ever set in stone. The moderators have to make a decision at the time factoring many things so there are possible exceptions that have not been specifically addressed herein. An example ... if there's several cases of "acceptable" taxing going on at the same time choking off travel, you can bet a few of them are gonna get told to move along (or be jailed) to remove the logjam.

The bottom line of "If you are caught taxing, don't cry if you get jailed" is always in effect ... so the more responsible you are about it, the more we'll let you have some fun with it.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2002 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That Reebar person, playing presumably Issy Phrost, lies on multiple accounts.
On other points he/she is misinformed, since this is the flame forum I will not enlighten him/her.
To Conrad, yes I know we risk jail if caught racketeering and I play accordingly.
I never attack people going back from where they went especially if they will fetch allies, after all it is the ensuing big consensual battle that interests me, not the measly tax.
What made the situation messier is the new antichainPP script which mistakes barehanded disarm attacks with PP attempts causing my instantaneous death on this occasion and making me respawn ( through Hell, I NEVER relog) 2 times before I realized what had killed me.
Seeing my foes still present and wanting to understand what had killed me so unexpectedly, I tried again untill I got it right.
I never used pickpocketing during the whole incident.
BTW the antiPP script in arenas, and presumably the Pit, kills barehand disarmers which makes that area hardly suitable for war.
Reebar should learn that respawning is the correct way to reenter the game after death and not relogging like he/she has done.

Don Juan.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2002 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

reebo, we may be rogues, but we do have honor (and brains), we don't just go around and ask everyone money and when they don't pay we kill them, we also don't tax people who we could easily kill without even getting damaged.

if you were stupid enough to walk through such a blokade, then its your own fault, and I bet you weren't even PKed multiple times, and kept coming back for more like nef said. Please stop whining and use your brains, if someone taxes you, try to get some friends who are online to bash us (not that they will win) or call for a mod.

and another thing, taxing near the eleriina gate = dumb, no PVP emot-yum.gif
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Seathan
PostWed 10/30/02 9:49am
I think LoS are funny  Reply with quote
 
Kindo
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2002 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

About you gettin jailed if caught taxing.
That means you are thrown in the castle, right?
And the castle is only for people who break RP, right?
And taxing is RP, right?

See my point?
So I do not understand Bri on that particular matter.

Why should someone doing fully-accepted RP be thrown in the prison meant for lamers/assholes?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2002 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We can be funny at times.
Anyhow, first time I died I didn't relog or respawn.. No.. I was rezzed by one of your party (dredoc). I then lurked in the shadows to rest up and see if my deity had to say anything about it. THAT is when I attacked you again.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2002 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kindo ... you didn't read what I said carefully.

You said "I don't see why people get jailed for fully accepted RP"

I said, before, that the taxing isn't fully accepted nor do I expect it to be. Bri has been pretty clear on that and that's where I (and Uin) take our orders from. I don't know where the concept that the castle dyso jail is only for RP breakers came from. All I know is what I was told to look out for and that happens to be where my key sends people.

That said, it's always a matter of he said, she said and so forth ... and the moderators are not always around. Hence there will be times when people will run ridiculous taxes and basically have little chance of getting caught. Cats away, mice will play and all that jazz. I daresay there will be far more opportunity to do it with impunity than there will be with the risk of being caught. That small risk isn't a total balance, but its better than nothing at all.

What the "rules" are meant to do is to try to give people some parameters to hopefully make it a helluva lot less contentious between players. It won't solve it totally, but it does give the taxers a way of doing it and not looking like totally grief-minded players. It also gives the taxees some parameters to see the difference between someone who's trying to RP the baddie role and not just abuse people. It's all essentially meant to give folks a yardstick by which to measure actions and hopefully police themselves in a reasonable manner.

Bear in mind, as I said before, that people who get victimized are likely to bring their issues to light here on the forums and Uin and I both read the posts. We do take things into consideration and with a grain of salt with some folks. Yet if there's constant and varied complaints about one player or group of players, we are more apt to view them with higher scrutiny.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2002 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they wana prevent PP why are those scareps so expencive

make them cheaper this will stop chain PP (they will risk it once but not 5 time's)
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2002 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since people apparently already decided on this without ever consulting me even though i offered on more than one occasion and had already instituted rules within my guild which have now been replaced without asking my opinion i don't consider it my responsibility anymore. Furthermore, I'll be taking a break. I had it up to here with having my authority undermined by wellmeant attempts to control this situation but it seems the moderators want to to do it all by themselves, fine. Have fun with it. Not my problem anymore.
Cya.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2002 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just for completion sake, this is what i was trying to get instated as official rules for rogues, all rogues. But it doesn't matter anymore. Obviously my opinion means jackshit to some people.

1. Chain pickpocketing: No chain pickpocketing for any reason.
2. Duping: No duplicating for any reason.
3. Rezrape: No Rezrape for any reason.
4. No exploits for any reason: These include any things not mentioned or discovered yet like getting into or onto places you're not supposed to get, hoarding money by making dupecharacters and the like.
5. Lifetime Warranty: One Lifetime means until a person respawns. You get to rob an acceptable amount of loot each Lifetime a victim has, meaning it's up to the victim to decide if he wants to risk another robbery by returning and trying to get revenge. Also this ruling applies when a person is lying on the floor recovering cause technically he might not be dead but he's still at the other player's mercy. If he gets up and attacks again that's his decision and his risk to take and the Lifetime Warranty is renewed
6. The 30 Second Ruling: A victim of a robbing who dies needs to respawn within 30 seconds after dying or the Lifetime Warranty is renewed, meaning the Rogue is allowed to grab again for acceptable loot. 30 seconds gives any allied healer time to rez the victim, while not giving the victim the opportunity to rant and rave while lying dead on the floor for minutes just cause he knows the thief is not allowed to break the Lifetime Warranty. This means it's up to the victim if he wants to take the risk to exceed this time and wait for a healer or to respawn and take his losses.
7. Finder's Fee: Any item worth more than 50000 gp can be charged with a Finder's Fee of up to 50% the prize you'd get pawning it. If the owner can't afford that, you can either strike a bargain with the owner for a lower prize or keep the item until he has the money. This ruling means that buying back a weapon from a rogue costs a victim no more than say 30-40% of what it would cost him to buy the weapon at a shop again or running a quest to get it again, since shops always charge more when buying than pay out when selling. It also allows the Rogue to make a fair amount of money on a dangerous task (since any items worth over 50000 gp are only in possession of those powerfull enough to take down a Rogue and they deserve a reward for pulling off the itemsnatch). You're not allowed to sell the item unless the owner gives up his rights and says it's yours to keep. So it's up to the rogue to decide whether he wants to drag the item with him or settle for a lower prize if the owner can't afford to buy it back immediately.

AL (Acceptable Looting)
What's acceptable looting? Basically looting from pickpocketing can be divided into two classes: Expendables and Permanents; Expendable items are those with charges (scrolls, wands, ammo etc), Permanents are re-usable (weapons, armor, books, bracers, rings, etc). If you happen upon a permanent item while pickpocketing a person you should end it there. If all you get are expendables and money you can continue till you get something really worthwhile.
*Money is free game. As long as you pick money you can continue to do so until the victim has none left. Robbing money is a slow process usually with a max of 50 gp/picking giving victims plenty of time to get away with some left.
*Expendables: Potions, Rods, Wands, Ammunition, Throwing Weapons and Scrolls are fair game. They are not too expensive and often found as loot on monsters, therefore relatively common and fairly easy to replace.
*Weapons: Weapons are usually an intergral part of a person's outfit, meaning they rely on a weapon to add to their abilities, meaning it's not fun for a player to lose a weapon. That being said, it should be frustrating to have an item robbed. Usually fighter type characters have more than one weapon on them.
Any weapon over 50000 fall under the Finder's Fee ruling. If you need to Disarm more than one weapon during a victim's Lifetime you hand back the excess weapons you grabbed in a player friendly zone after the battle and charge him for the most expensive one only.
*Armor: In theory a character should only have one armor and one shield and usually it's the one he wears meaning usually a rogue won't be able to rob it. If a person has more armors on him then I suppose he can also afford to lose one. A rogue is allowed to rob one armor/Lifetime. Any armor over 50000 fall under the Finder's Fee ruling.
So example: You sneak up on someone, grab money the first 3 times you pickpocket, grab a scroll of Fireball the 4th, and a Longsword +2 the 5th. That's the acceptable level. Grabbing a Book of Cure Serious Wounds on top of that is not. Ok, let's say the target discovers his sword being stolen and he attacks the rogue and the rogue decides the fight in his favor (we tend to travel in packs). Now the target is pissed off and starts a cuss tyrade for a full minute lying on the floor dead. You're allowed after 30 seconds to restart the looting process. If the target respawns and returns to take revenge you also allowed to repeat the process. However the victim can also take judicial steps and have you placed on a Suspects list to be hunted down by bountyhunters and jailed. There is a fair chance the rogue hasn't sold the stolen goods yet so you might even get it back if he's jailed and the sherriff is around to hand it back to you.

ACA (Acceptable Criminal Activities)
*Taxing: A Rogue can take a strategic position and tax anyone passing. The amount of tax depends on the difficulty rating of the target. If a person refuses to pay and walks back the way he came he's off. If a person refuses to pay and tries to pass, tries to kill the taxer or starts to rant and rave the taxer can take action against that person, either killing him or grab acceptable loot. You don't call the guy who holds a gun to your head a mother^&%$ cause he's bound to use it. he's not trying to socialize with you, he's robbing you of your possessions and will likely shoot you before taking crap. Then again any rogue should consider that punishment for murder is more severe than punishment for extortion.
This way it's a matter of common sense, "do I want to pay and pass without risk or do I think I can kill this punk?". Tax can be paid in cash or with items worth an equal amount. Remember a smart rogue will want to get money with as little hassle as possible and sooner settle for cash than get into a fight.
Effortless: Let pass. Obviously no match for the Rogue.
Up to Easy: When a Rogue demands money from someone with an Easy rating he is allowed to charge up to 500 gp.
Up to Difficult: When a Rogue demands money from someone with a Difficult rating he is allowed to charge up to 1000 gp.
Up to Impossible: When a Rogue demands money from someone with an impossible rating he is allowed to charge up to 5000 gp.
For groups each pays his own tax but give lower levels the chance to get out before a fight starts. Target only those who try to pass, attack or insult.
*Racketeering
Racketeering involves having a victim pay money to be "protected". Protection does mean you make sure no other rogues rob the player and you yourself will leave the player to his affairs as long as he pays up. If the victim doesn't pay up he is no longer "protected" and subject to acceptable looting. Again should be adjusted for difficulty rating. This system means that a Rogue can adjust his prizes as his "client" moves up in experience (but at the same time it is also more likely the victim will refuse to pay at some point). You get to rob someone as under the usual rules if he doesn't pay.
Up to Easy: A rogue can demand up to 500 gp/RL day.
*Grab and Run: The issue of lootstealing is a tough one but i suppose anyone who takes the time to wait for someone to kill something so he can grab the loot and run off deserves to get away with it. It is pretty much like purse snatching but again the Finder's Fee rule applies.
*Scamming: Scamming basically involves selling a person something you don't have or have no right to sell. People falling for a scam are just dumb. Just as in real life you check references before buying a house you should also check with a sherrif or mayor before settling a deal. If you're stupid enough to entrust your money to a scammer he has done nothing to force you to do so. You can report him to the local government to have him hunted down in-game if you can prove you were scammed. Scamming is where the big money is.

Crime and punishment:
When placing an Arrest Decree on the Suspect list the moderator must also state the nature of the crime. This will determine the punishment the suspect will undergo to get out should the moderator not take matters in hand personally and interrogate and release the suspect.
Any time someone lands in jail he must place all stolen goods in a vault. This is the best reason a Rogue can have to be carefull. After a convict has served his time and paid his dues he has paid his debt to society and is free to go. If a suspect can't pay his fine jailtime is extended by 5 minutes.
*Theft: Suspect is charged up to 20% of the value of all stolen items in his possession. This means any time someone lands in jail the script checks the inventory of the rogue for any items marked stolen, adds up the total goldpiece value and charges 20% of it as fine. The thief needs to deposit all items marked stolen from his inventory into a vault chest. This vault can be emptied only by the sherrif or mayor so a stolen item can be returned to its owner. Also a temporary effect will mimic his fingers being broken dropping all his rogue skills involving manuel dexterity with 20 points. This can be removed with a Heal spell. So if say Falkhor steals your Greatsword+2 worth 50000 gp and he is caught and jailed it will cost him 10000 gp to bail himself out plus he needs to deposit all stolen items into the Vault. If he doesn't pay the money he'll sit in jail for 15 minutes and still needs to drop all stolen items in the Vault to get out. (this is why fencing stolen goods and whitewashing the money is always a great idea for rogues). The sherrif can give your items back after they've been deposited.in the vault.
*Assault: An Assault is when you hurt someone but not kill him. Jailtime of 10 minutes and a fine of 1000 gp gets you out.
*Murder: Murder is punishable by death. Since death usually isn't that big a deal, especially when you're level 20, execution should have some effect that lasts longer. First off the player sits out his execution for 10 minutes, then the executioner comes and hacks him to pieces. His skull appears in a public place outside so everyone can see who was executed (maybe when it appears there we can have a HURRAY soundeffect?). When respawning, the player is automatically under the influence of a Bestow Curse and Level Drain effect until restored.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2002 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah well apparently the moderators feel THEY should be the ones laying the ground rules for all rogues to play by. I mean, this is supposed to be a playerrun mod right? Well, so much for that idea...
Everyone is just treating us as if we're all a bunch of little children running amok. I can only speak for myself, but keep treating me that way and I WILL start acting like a little spoiled brat. I have a feeling though, that a lot of rogues are with me on that one.
Sure, no one likes to be taxed, or PP-ed, or killed. But hey, we (mostly Falkhor) were the ones to start it (it being rogue activity in general), now let's get a decent group of players together to stop it (while still remaining in character of course). I can't believe noone has seen it before, but if you don't do anything about us taxing & pp-ing and stuff you obviously DO NOT CARE (enough). So that basically doesn't give you ANY right to b*tch about it on the forum here.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2002 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe people do not listen to me at all or maybe my type is just WAY to small but
Yes we do place our own restrictions on taxes, not yours (we think they are fair: 20k for level 20's, 10k 15-19s, 5k 10-14's, 1k 5-10's)
yes we know why we get jailed for tolling
this however, will not stop us from doing so
there is no such thing as chain pp anymore
relogging after death is banned from the LoS and the LGoG and therefore was probally not used by Don or Nef.....
but you yourself are a hipocrite Reebar for relogging for the same stupid reason as most everyone else (you did not want to be ppd so you relogged JUST SPAWN)
let me quote a wise man
by saying "the discussion is over, no more arguement, GG but it isnt gonna change"
so many of you complain when you can stop it in character instead of taking it here
one last thing:
Conrad that is strange logic you say by telling us we cant kill people who do not pay the toll....and i dont think you heard me the first 2827828902717187 posts when i said that we offered a million chances for a way out....reebar was killed for the relog exploit when he could have just as easily respawned.
END OF DISCUSSION
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2002 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nefiorim wrote:
Yeah well apparently the moderators feel THEY should be the ones laying the ground rules for all rogues to play by.


Nope, the rules apply to everyone, it just so happens that Rogues are the worst offenders.

Let me make it totally clear that this is not an attck on LoS.

Conard, thanks for FINALLY posting that, lol.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2002 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TOO MUCH CRAP CHAT

action is needed woohooo!!!!!!!

the victioms demand a compensation and if they dont get it this evil people shall be slaughtered!

woohooo

cheers
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2002 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't mention the LoS once in the body of that post ... or even the second one. It also didn't get in PPing other than the chain mode which I think everyone agrees is a no-no anyhow. It's funny that the LoS folks think this is some attack on them because it wasn't meant to be ... it covers issues that others besides the LoS engage in.

The stuff that was in that post was primarily formulated between Uin, Bri, myself and a few others before this whole Reebar incident and this Reebar case had absolutely no bearing on it ... it was going to be posted sooner or later, the concept was already there. If folks read carefully they would also see that I went out of my way in wording things in such a way as to leave plenty of wiggle room as to not call for an outright ban (which I think could have been done well within the directives given from Bri). There was plenty of voices that night who wanted to ban the taxes totally, I was one of the few who actually didn't want to go that far. The result was the best possible compromise to try to be fair to all. Folks need to be careful who they piss on when they get into their self righteous anger because the pendulum could swing in the other direction in the future, you know?

Insofar as the moderators usurping things from folks ... I don't see it that way. The moderators don't have to usurp it, they already were given the authority. What goes on between players and how players handle these issues amongst themselves is one thing, how the moderators approach it is something else entirely.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2002 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conrad, Bri, Uin, what pissed me offabout this is that i've been working for months to get a handle on all things concerning rogues, setting up rules of behaviour, adjusting rulings within the LoS to current situations, to make it fair on all players, offering over and over to discuss these issues if they should ruin the fun for some people, even offering to become moderator so i could have some real authority in this matter, and by passing me by without so much as even ONCE asking my opinion on this matter you are basically saying that whatever I try to do doesn't matter.
It shows a complete lack of respect for me personally and your players in general, it undermines any authority within my guild that i've been building up because basically what you are saying is that my opinion simply doesn't count and you can do it all on your own without my help.
You've taken it all out of my hands, basically turning your backs on me and huddling together to discuss this. Don't tell me you didn't have a chance to talk to me about this cause apparently this was lying about for quite a while, don't tell me this latest incident had nothing to do with posting it now cause it obviously does. When I first decided to leave I got an overwhelming amount of support, even from people that I thought wanted me to leave over this whole incident, telling me they understood what I was trying to do, got support from people that in game we've budded heads with and still remained friends. There may be a difference between characters and moderators but I always thought that as players we were all equal. Obviously we're not. You all made it pretty clear that whatever players decide among themselves doesn't mean squat.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:09 pm    Post subject: Geeeez Reply with quote

:: blah blah blah :: it's all I've read within this topic. Give the LoS a break, they are not doing anything out of the ordinary people...and stop bypassing and judging others way of playing, like if your was the best.

90% of the people within Dysotopia RP sh*t, they just pretend to do, I've seen more ooc (without making any reference of it) chats than IC, I include myself, so if we are going to start making critics about the lack or poor rp on others actions, then lets start by seeing ourselves.

I got pissed at the beginning of the whole thing (a month ago?), because yeah, I don't like having to pay 500gp (extremenly short ammount of money now that I look at it) to be allowed in the forest. But hey, they do ACTUALLY RP, and that says a lot more than the rest of us.

It has been always a race to get to 20, then do the emerald run again, then wait for someone to get a cool item, start talking about it, and trying to get your hands in that. You get bored after a few days of that lvl 20, and you make another character, and you do the same things over and over.

Just because you put a background on your character, and you run around with a torch (no offense dennis) that doesn't estrictly says "Nice RP'n"

So if we can run to the emerald caves as many times as we like, if we can use the exploits and bugs of the game (I've seen more people going thru the wall than actually killing the renders for the book), if we all can just try and find a reason to kill someone we dislike...WHY DON'T WE ALL SHUT THE FUCK UP AND LET THE LOS PLAY AND ENJOY THE GOD D*** SERVER LIKE THE REST OF US ?!?!?!?!?!

Wtf are they doing that's so offensive? You're lvl 5? WTF are you doing on the sylvandale city ? HOW do you got there? WHAT for? Exactly, then don't freaking bitch you got killed. You were going to die anyways.

So Conrad, or everyone else with the attitude, stop pretending you know better than the rest of the players. Cause I've seen you online, and you barely Rp. We were together at the trolls in kraven, and you didn't even said hello, how is that rp? You just wanted to level. And didn't care really about the surroundings except for trolls.

Simple as that, so everyone just stfu and let the los play and enjoy like the rest of us.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol kuma as always straight for the throat! Gotta love her for that.
Been talking to Bri today. For now i won't take any rash decisions.
We all knew things would be tough without Gesh at the wheel of the Dyso ship, I think everyone should calm down again or we'll lose what we all love, Dysotopia.
It's tough on all of us and I'm sure most of us are all trying to do what's right in our own minds. It's just that communication is not going terribly well without the king on his throne and tempers are flaring.
But I think we all want Dyso to be the best there is, let's keep that in mind.
Apologies on my side for any harsh words recently.
Just talk to me though before doing stuff like this...
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PostThu 10/31/02 8:27pm
so many long posts......  Reply with quote
 
Griff Inn
PostThu 10/31/02 9:16pm
As much as he jails me, I miss the king! (and i think we all do).

Griff
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2002 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Falkhor wrote:
It's just that communication is not going terribly well without the king on his throne and tempers are flaring.


Everybody takes heed of what Gesh has to say. But nobody gives a flying fekk what a mod ever says. Think about that all.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2002 1:14 am    Post subject: mmmm Reply with quote

Uin Fleetwood wrote:

Everybody takes heed of what Gesh has to say. But nobody gives a flying fekk what a mod ever says. Think about that all.


I Personally give a damn about what gesh says because 1. He created the mod, 2. He actually knows the rules since he is the one that sets them mostly, 3. And a few other reasons that will sound a tad bitchy.

I personally don't give a damn about what you have to say, and you know why perfectly. So whatever you say it's yada yada talk to me. Simple as that.

I give a damn of what Conrad says, when he is being objtective and not trying to sound superior.

Problem is, that just because you are a mod, that doesn't give you a tittle of "I'm perfect, so listen to me cause I'm right", and btw, if you actually had fair points or good ones at all, people would give a damn about what you have to say...think about that...

Which lead to the last problem with mod, in every single game, software (IRC as example) or anything else when you have a power ladder, when you give certain power (let's keep with the theme here, so let's say an @ status in x channel) to people who can't handle them, they get on powertrips, and that my friend, ANNOYS the hell out of me, people (In this case Brian or Gesh) should be careful about who they give those powers to, cause imo, your so not the person for the role...

Think about that too.

Tada!
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2002 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seeing my sweet Chara name was mentioned in the opening post ONE minor point .That day I was level 12 NOT 20 so dont exaggerrate or buy new glasses.I m not yet anywy in the LOS or any group but these pitiful whimpers tempt me to offer allegiance.You got in trouble by yourself and were dealt one on one dont whimper ....you sound like the Italian World Cup manager blaming everyone but the true cause YOURSELF Nuff said end of topic

Is there a spell check cant see it my English spelling sucks
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2002 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't help but sound superior, it's in my perfect genetic code. icon_wink.gif

But seriously ...

Someone, and 1000 pardons for not going back to pull the specific post, said that I was saying that it was no go on killing if someone if they didn't pay the tax. That's not what I said and if I wasn't clear, let me try to address that. What I was getting at was that folks need to be given the chance to say no and walk away and not say no and end up dead. That seems to be the general approach as outlined by Falkhor and others with rational heads, so that's good with me. I think it was said that folks were given a bazillion chances to walk away ... which sounds a bit unreasonable in the other direction, but I'm just poking a little fun there.

Now if someone says no and proceeds to attack or they just attack outright, as I said before, I'd not expect the taxer to stand there and just eat steel and smile. The issue there is the whole logoff to go get another character for revenge and such ... and, again, I think the rational folks all agree this is terribly bad form.

Believe me, I'm not out to get the LoS ... or really anyone in particular. I'm doing my best to approach this impartially and give folks enough wiggle room to have some fun within some parameters so as to cut down on the bitching. It's not a perfect system, it's not even a set in stone system ... but I figured some posted views on it from the moderator perspective would, at least, give folks some foundation to keep in mind. I applaud Falk's efforts to strike some balance from his end of things. What I think happens, however, is that others see it and decide to do it themselves without the benefit of the wisdom of folks like Falk. They do it in a more ruthless manner and it ends up reflecting on the LoS in the minds of many (even if it had nothing to do with the LoS). That Falk wasn't part of that discussion before was a mistake, and I readily admit it, but it was one of those things that developed quickly.

And on the charge of not saying hello, Kuma, I plead guilty ... but then you'll find I don't say hello to a lot of people. You can ask most folks, they usually have to invite me first to a party. I'm usually just wandering around or checking out various zones and/or slaying some monsters. From the RP angle, it's been weak across so many fronts that my own effort on it has suffered as well. I guess that genetic code isn't so perfect after all ... so much for my ubermensch status. Pity, that. icon_wink.gif

((and in case anyone needed this advisory .. the above post contained some instances of sarcasm and self-aggrandizing humor not meant to be taken too seriously))
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