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Zero Tolerance
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Falkhor
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2002 7:58 pm    Post subject: Zero Tolerance Reply with quote

To make things crystalclear:

It seems people are under the impression that Dysotopia is a player owned mod.
That they have rights based on the fact that they're players in the mod.
That they are afforded legal defence due to the fact that there is a EULA. That they can do whatever they want as long as they stick to letter of the law. That they can hold a moderator accountable for injustice.
That they have the right to play any way they wish as long as they take care not to piss off the powers that be too much.
Let me make it plain and simple: You have no rights whatsoever.
What, does that sound harsh?
It's a fact though, the EULA is a guideline for guests to Dysotopia so they know what the host deems decent roleplaying behaviour. It is not the law written in stone, it is not a tool to be used to justify obvious attempts to ruin the mood that the builders of this mod are trying to set.
If I invite you in my house, that does not give you the right to kick off your shoes, smoke a sigarette or raid the fridge. As a host I can opt to offer you that right in the understanding that as guest you don't abuse that right. The exact same thing applies to mods build by anyone but yourself.
The law in Dysotopia lies in the hands of its developers and is supported by those chosen as their representatives in the shape of moderators appointed by said developers.
A moderator does not NEED to explain his actions to you. The only one who can call to account a moderator is one of the developers (ie: Gesh or Bri).
If a moderator makes a decision that means the law has spoken. You don't get a quarter to call your lawyer, because you have no rights to representation. If you are found to be an unwelcome guest we don't need to prove you're doing something to ruin the mood of the mod. If we get enough complaints about a certain player we can jail them or recomment banning.
We're not judges, we're the doormen who throw out anyone who even looks the wrong way.
Call it powerabuse, call it injustice, we don't particularly care. Our responsibility is to provide a fun game enviroment for the majority of players based on the principles of roleplaying adjusted by guidelines set out by the mod's developers.

Do not get too comfortable thinking you can avoid repercussions if you come up with enough excuses.
They are very thin and transparent with most abusers. Do not presume you can lecture a moderator based on your knowledge of the EULA nor that your rights are protected by the EULA.
They are not, you have no rights, none of you do.
You're guests, and if some people insist on being unwelcome guests, they may find the doors to Dysotopia not so welcome to them anymore!

The Moderator Crew
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Glorin
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2002 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gesh save us


Got something to say by Jim Morrison

I got something to say
oh yeah! something to say
down the lane as I walk
with no one but myself to talk
thinking about whatever
wondering away wherever
why cant I stop the pain
what have I got to gain
O lord where is the blessed rain?

Into the great arid waste
why is everyone in haste?
the murky skies with the bloated sun
with this broken heart I can't even run
the life water is now a poison stream
this is the vision of our dream
there is war within
there is war without
all the guns want to screech and shout
and then the gun is the law and the law is the gun
some have all and some have none...

the crazed masses will one day revolt
and strike this world like a lightning bolt
and this we choose
we choose our end
isn't it sad dear friend?
so let us fight
fight for the right
fight for the future
fight for ourselves
fight for as long as may
oh yes! I got something to say
as I walk away....
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[quote:a89551bc29="AliZee'"]that shits utterly devoid of any meaningless sense...i tottally disagree on tha basis that tha argument you have pressented is full of actual facts and shit, i think based on tha fact that i have no idea of what tha fuck you were talkin gabout i would have to wholoeheartedly proclaim that you are wrong.
Thank you,
AliZee'[/quote]
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2002 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Falkhor is right Glorin.
You do not need to strike back.
It is not your place to set the rules.

Very good Falk.
It will set things straight for those who
do not understand what this is about.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2002 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) It does make sense
2) The message would've had a bigger "impact" or "power rating" if written by a developer (at least not a moderator icon_wink.gif)
3) I agree icon_biggrin.gif
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2002 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, no need to strike back, there's justy one little thing that would be fun to see in Dyso. An actual law, that is upheld by keepers of the peace, because that way, people cant do just anything without getting punished. If someone get's ripped off they tend to get pissed(Mr. Red Hashmeer, you still owe me 100k). But with a law, they'd have something to defend themselves with against the higher levels or some other things. And it would make for good RPing situations.
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Solo_Core
PostSun 12/01/02 8:51pm
i think falkor is completely right if you don't like the things done to you just leave. bri and gesh decide who takes control in their absence.  Reply with quote
 
Solo_Core
PostSun 12/01/02 8:51pm
ps. i think killing someone for a bounty is against the law too. shadow  Reply with quote
 
Glorin
PostSun 12/01/02 9:01pm
the poem wasnt about striking back it was about rebelling for no apparent reason LoL  Reply with quote
 
Glorin
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2002 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mods are supposed to be OOC, but in the absence of IC militias and lawenforcement they must act both IC and OOC. which sucks. Eventually when my city is made and i take over the word the Dyso-Mods can relax and let MY mods take over.
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[quote:a89551bc29="AliZee'"]that shits utterly devoid of any meaningless sense...i tottally disagree on tha basis that tha argument you have pressented is full of actual facts and shit, i think based on tha fact that i have no idea of what tha fuck you were talkin gabout i would have to wholoeheartedly proclaim that you are wrong.
Thank you,
AliZee'[/quote]
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Mr. Red Hashmeer
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2002 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if moderators arrest people for RPing situations then it is no longer RP
more like an evil purge in a utopian world
yes i did rip you off
no i will not pay you the money i promised
there is no reason to bring the moderators into this
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Drudley
PostSun 12/01/02 9:26pm
Mods with an attitude REALLY sux  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2002 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think any of the moderators LIKE having to get hardass over this stuff, but it's become pretty clear over the past couple of weeks that ...

a) No amount of warning and "OK, we'll let it slide this time" was working. The guilty parties would just lay low for a bit and resume when they thought no one was looking. The thing is the mods have more than one account and will sometimes use them to "test" people. Some of those tested have indeed failed.

b) Certain folks don't give a rats arse about fairness, fun, or the general good of the majority of the folks trying to play. I'm not talking about the periodic pick pocket or even the occasional exploit. I'm talking about pure powergaming devoid of any degree of real roleplay. They've been warned, lectured, talked to and advised against it ... but they just display the attitude of "I'm here to be able to kill everyone and when I feel like it, I'll say it was roleplaying." Bzzt ain't gonna fly.

I know I've tried to be as fair and forgiving as I am humanly possible, but all that's got me is a whole lot of crap. Falk knows better than most what goes into some evil RP and he knows it when he sees it. I let his wisdom in these matters be my guide, and it's helped much. In the past we've tried to ask folks to let the moderators know if some assassination attempt was in the works or the like, but what we're seeing isn't that ... because that would actually require some RP.

What we ARE seeing is just killing for killings sake because someone feels like pissing someone off. All this ends up doing is making someone who might otherwise have been a good addition to the community turn around and leave and not come back. Or ... even worse ... they decide "screw the RP, I'm going to make a K-RaD-KeWL PKing machine myself and have at it ... if these guys can do it, so can I!" This does not promote a solid community of role playing.

It's a shame it's gotten to this point but between myself, Falk, Kindo, and Uin we've pretty much come to the conclusion that we're gonna bring the tide around to a lot more RP even if it means we have to start beating it into people. People need to start getting used to it sooner or later, unfortunately the actions of some have made it sooner. We know everyone goes a little OOC now and then, we're not out to bust chops over that ... but there's plenty out there who have no pretense whatsoever about not caring to RP nor even wanting to try. We're the guys who are supposed to preserve the atmosphere and, dammit, we are a ROLE PLAY server! Folks are going to start ACTING like it or folks are going to be spending lots of time in jail or worse.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2002 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guess what?

We dont give a rats A** about what ne mods have to say, you enforce the rules, NOT MAKE THEM.

I'm 100% sure that Bri agrees with u, so if bri wuld copy and paste Falks entire post and post it, I will BE COMPLETELY CONTENT. mods dont make the rules, bri and gesh do.
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[quote:a89551bc29="AliZee'"]that shits utterly devoid of any meaningless sense...i tottally disagree on tha basis that tha argument you have pressented is full of actual facts and shit, i think based on tha fact that i have no idea of what tha fuck you were talkin gabout i would have to wholoeheartedly proclaim that you are wrong.
Thank you,
AliZee'[/quote]
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2002 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drudley wrote:
Mods with an attitude REALLY sux


agreed, nothing but people in a position of power just like most DM's think they can do anything, because the power goes to their heads... so if its a privately owned mod and they only want play testers for running the emerald armor over and over "testing" stuff why the hell dont they do it then? dyso has never been anything more than an action server and never will be...

im sick of power freaks... like falkor... im almost through wasting my time on dyso... they talk shit but dont know how to deal with shit..

once dyso is gone im quiting nwn... no reason to play anymore....

but then again.... he hehe... why is this called the rants section? lol because no one takes you seriousely =D


rofl....

just had to let that out as my feelings on this ordeal.... i dont care what a moderator does... i keep a low profile and go with the flow... i am pragmatic, i do what it takes to win... thats it... heh...

Sincerely, Jon.
Doing what is tactically sound after letting out some emotions.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2002 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
i keep a low profile and go with the flow...



sure you are...
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BriHurley
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2002 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conrad Hollows wrote:
I don't think any of the moderators LIKE having to get hardass over this stuff, but it's become pretty clear over the past couple of weeks that ...

a) No amount of warning and "OK, we'll let it slide this time" was working. The guilty parties would just lay low for a bit and resume when they thought no one was looking. The thing is the mods have more than one account and will sometimes use them to "test" people. Some of those tested have indeed failed.

b) Certain folks don't give a rats arse about fairness, fun, or the general good of the majority of the folks trying to play. I'm not talking about the periodic pick pocket or even the occasional exploit. I'm talking about pure powergaming devoid of any degree of real roleplay. They've been warned, lectured, talked to and advised against it ... but they just display the attitude of "I'm here to be able to kill everyone and when I feel like it, I'll say it was roleplaying." Bzzt ain't gonna fly.

I know I've tried to be as fair and forgiving as I am humanly possible, but all that's got me is a whole lot of crap. Falk knows better than most what goes into some evil RP and he knows it when he sees it. I let his wisdom in these matters be my guide, and it's helped much. In the past we've tried to ask folks to let the moderators know if some assassination attempt was in the works or the like, but what we're seeing isn't that ... because that would actually require some RP.

What we ARE seeing is just killing for killings sake because someone feels like pissing someone off. All this ends up doing is making someone who might otherwise have been a good addition to the community turn around and leave and not come back. Or ... even worse ... they decide "screw the RP, I'm going to make a K-RaD-KeWL PKing machine myself and have at it ... if these guys can do it, so can I!" This does not promote a solid community of role playing.

It's a shame it's gotten to this point but between myself, Falk, Kindo, and Uin we've pretty much come to the conclusion that we're gonna bring the tide around to a lot more RP even if it means we have to start beating it into people. People need to start getting used to it sooner or later, unfortunately the actions of some have made it sooner. We know everyone goes a little OOC now and then, we're not out to bust chops over that ... but there's plenty out there who have no pretense whatsoever about not caring to RP nor even wanting to try. We're the guys who are supposed to preserve the atmosphere and, dammit, we are a ROLE PLAY server! Folks are going to start ACTING like it or folks are going to be spending lots of time in jail or worse.


Need I say more????
Grow up people and play nice...Have a good time...if you want to go postal invite people to arena's....play have FUN!!! that is what DYSOTOPIA stands for.............................
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2002 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

falkhor is justa full of complexes prick behind his computer where he feels powerfull

but one thing he has right, players have no rights, and it doesnt matter if the majority think something or not, heck it doesnt even matter if you think at all

now for this part
"You're guests, and if some people insist on being unwelcome guests, they may find the doors to Dysotopia not so welcome to them anymore! "

i think that when you come in and you get some messages sayying "hey man where u been" and you keep getting messaged all the time that you are playing, for different things, do you think one really cares if a mod or even the guy in charge welcomes you, see how much i care...

Edit, and what i mean with that is that if only 2 people dont like but 20 other do, why would you stop feeling welcomed
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no more kitten =(
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Glorin
PostMon 12/02/02 12:49am
ogt OOC i think ur a cool funny guy, the only thing that ticks me off is when u start making fun of peeps for dying lol  Reply with quote
 
Ogt
PostMon 12/02/02 1:17am
i never did it before but since i was evil i guess that allowed to me laugh of weaker beings  Reply with quote
 
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2002 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

im alittle distrubed...why is it that the two mods, Kindo and Falkor are both from the League of Shadows!?!? icon_biggrin.gif

We cant have a bunch of rogues being mods with all that power now can we?
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2002 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ogt wrote:
i never did it before but since i was evil i guess that allowed to me laugh of weaker beings

you weren't evil, you were drunk icon_wink.gif
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Matthijs says:
   oh ja, ik weet het zonet nog niet
Matthijs says:
   het ziet er toch wel een beetje naar uit dat we nederlands praten
Matthijs says:
   mischien moet ik dan maar eens vaker nederlands gaan praten
Matthijs says:
   kan je me ook meteen niet op al mijn spellinsfouten wijzen
There you have it! indisputable proof Solo's a fascist!!!
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2002 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

no but i made an evil character, i never laughet at anyone as ogt
but i must accept it feels good to kill people and laugh at them no more restrictions for me am goin to be mean now on

hey can you believe it there was a girl calling me demon because i summoned a skellie , i chased her with my vagabond robes and a torch all around eleriina like for 5 minutes with all the people laughing at me and she calling me AWAY FROM ME DEMON, but then she dissapeared in the rift gate , that was funny
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2002 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know I walked by the tail end of that Ogt and I was saying ... "what the hell is going on here..." She's screaming away from me demon, and you're going "I'm no demon, come back come back." Hah
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2002 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to voice some support for the moderators (Conrad, Falk, and Kindo I believe). They have a tough job, and take heat for their hard work as this thread clearly shows. Their efforts to improve proper rp on this server will benefit 99% of the players. There are powergamers out there who get off on repeatedly pking and robbing people completely devoid of roleplay, and they are driving away players and tarnishing the fun for others. There is nothing wrong with rping evil, and killing and stealing within the bounds of roleplay. I think we all can tell the difference between proper rp evil and powergaming. And those powergamers can't be allowed to hide behind the "it's rp" excuse anymore. Judgement is called for here, and the moderators have the authority to exercise that judgement, as that power was given to them by Bri and Gesh.

It sounds like there are some hard feeling here between certain individuals. Much of that is probably due to past conflicts between people, some of whom are now moderators. That's somthing that has to be put aside. The moderators have to be treated with courtesy and respect for the position (remember mod action is ooc). Likewise, the moderators should be expected to put aside past differences and moderate fairly towards all. If you have any problems with a moderators decisions, obey them nonetheless and take it up with Bri later. If you are in the right, Bri will correct the situation. I suspect the moderator will be in the right 99% of the time however.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2002 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes i told her that i was going to show her the good stuff but she didnt care at all and kept running, its not like i was going to take her to a room at the inn and make her undress or something mmmmmm
well maybe i was, but she was going to have fun!
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2002 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I back what the moderators and the creators are trying to do here. I would never want their job and can't imagine what it's like for them to face dislike and distaste everytime they log on. Everyone wants to be the nice guy and that will only get you so far. At some point you just have to throw someone's ass in jail, with the hopes they get the message.

Mod's are OOC so I don't have a problem with one that has an evil char on the side. I've seen a fair amount of RP abuse and there isn't a cure-all, either. Just keep up the good work, guys, and remember for every 1 complaint posted, there's at least 5 people out there that are very appreciative of everything you've done.

Again, thanks!
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2002 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i remember a time when i was training my lvl 15 Artemis....i was doing fine killing trolls in the kravenwood lowlands..UNTIL that stargate came along...i dont remember which of his many(not too mention weak) stargate chars he used..but he demanded that i pay the tax...quite obvious, i refused.

I then proceeded to leave the lowlands and went to "path to kravenwood"..he chased after me and nailed me with a few quick sneak attacks as i was being surrounded by troll sharmans and berseakers. And for good measure, he disarmed me and i lost my ice talon and +3 short sword.

Not taking it likely, i then proceed to extact my revenge...how ever he was with Pelando Inn and i died a good many times before i decided to change chars...it was obvious i wasnt gonna be able to train my Artemis, so i brought in Zak Fel emot-yum.gif

i figured i head on down to kraven to kill some trolls to get abit of cash..LUCKY, i found stargate and his LoS buddies, Roido, Falkor and a mage, Darkness(darkness killed my Artemis char with a finger of death earlier)

so i easily nailed stargate, took out darkness and imploded falkor icon_twisted.gif

i decided not to kill Roido coz i felt he wasnt worth the effort emot-yum.gif

After that little incident, stargate began shouting for a DM or Mod...and Roido sent me a tell threatening to have me banned for revenge killing icon_biggrin.gif

we argued abit and i mentioned that he could complain to gesh or even Bri abt it. I then decided to log out since i had already had my fun icon_biggrin.gif

Over the next few days, i sent Roido a 'tell' asking if he had told Bri or Gesh abt the incident and he said he didnt...so im wondering!!!!!

DID the LoS have a case against me!? or were they just a bunch of sore losers bitching abt how they were easily taken out by 1 person icon_biggrin.gif

just asking.... icon_twisted.gif
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2002 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zak, I did not know the entire story there.
All I got told was that "Zak has relogged and is doing revenge killing".
And I am sure I did not threaten you with ban at once.
If I recall correctly i just had a calm discussion with you trying to figure out what was going on.

As I said, I did not have the entire story. And forgive me if I somehow acted harshly.
I have no reason not to trust you, I guess the truth simply was left out that day.

I apologize.

PS: I will not let anyone get away with abusive actions just because he is my friend.
But so far, none of them has done anything seriously.
Just keep telling me if you think someone has done wrong and I will try to fix it.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2002 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to thank everyone who have shown their support to the moderators. It makes me very glad to see that someone understands us.
You are right when you say it is not an easy job we are doing. I have several times thought of resigning from it due to the disappointment some friends have told me to be. I do not want to lose my friends, and sometimes I think that leaving the moderating business is the only way. So many disagree with what I do and say. But I have yet not decided that.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2002 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kindo wrote:
I would like to thank everyone who have shown their support to the moderators. It makes me very glad to see that someone understands us.
You are right when you say it is not an easy job we are doing. I have several times thought of resigning from it due to the disappointment some friends have told me to be. I do not want to lose my friends, and sometimes I think that leaving the moderating business is the only way. So many disagree with what I do and say. But I have yet not decided that.



its a a game, jesus christ you think some people think it is real or has some monumental influence on real life...god d*mn... what a bunch of f*ck tards



lol

worrying about their job in game as it its life threatening...
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